Job Discussion Forums

Pikgitina · Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 420 Location: KSA

Why is the lack of culture such a big thing for a certain number of people? What do they mean when they say that? What culture do they - these ones who go on about the lack of culture - have...and how abundantly?

I have to admit that I am often gobsmacked by the level of racism and arrogance displayed by some Western expatriates here in KSA. They call Saudis 'lazy, rude, arrogant, selfish, hypocritical, annoying, self-important, uncourteous, cowardly, full of BS, idiotic, pathetic, uneducated', and a host of other things. They exchange endless stories of how dumb and useless these people are. It must make them feel better about themselves. They can laugh and sneer at Saudis, because Saudis are apparently not as good as they are. They can laugh at their difference and be reminded that (at least) they are not like them. Good old-fashioned us-and-them politics.

This is outright racism.

How wonderful do you have to be in your own estimation to condescend so flagrantly? Or is it an inferiority complex that can only be alleviated when you remind yourself that at least you're not like them?

It can be very challenging living in the Middle East, and especially in Saudi Arabia, but I do my best to avoid these racist types. Teaching here can also be extremely challenging. I won't make excuses for anyone's behaviour or attempt to justify anything, but honestly...pot, kettle (cough, cough)...

Okay: rant over! Rolling Eyes

cmp45 · Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 1475 Location: KSA

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Avoid those who are clearly Saudiphobic.,

akoo1 · Joined: 06 Apr 2015 Posts: 87

The real question is HOW TO DO YOU DEAL WITH RACISTS AND BIGOTS AT WORK WITHOUT UPSETTING THE OFFICE POLITICS? HOW DO YOU AVOID MAKING ENEMIES WITH OTHER TEACHERS WITHOUT ISOLATING YOURSELF OR OTHERS?

It seems like we have several jobs in KSA and only one of them is teaching English. Dealing with other expats can be a taxing job itself.

johnslat · Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject:

Dear akoo 1,

I didn't "deal with them." I talked to them only about work-related matters when necessary and avoided them otherwise.

You're certainly not going to change anyone's opinions. so don't even try.

Avoidance insofar as is possible is the only feasible solution.

Regards,
John

jaffa · Joined: 25 Oct 2012 Posts: 403

Next week I leave this place (Yippee! CUE the Can Can) after 5 years in the same place/job, and if I ever have to come back then I'll have made some serious financial mistakes.

Am currently sitting on a hotel terrace near my house, drinking coffee and water and sweating. Zero breeze, zero cool. In the past 15 minutes a group of youths has gone by and shouted out "eff you"; a group of women went by and giggled "Hi, how are you?"; various near-accidents have occurred; cars speeding down a narrow road pretty busy with pedestrians and children off to the roller-skating rink; a car pulls up in the parking spaces opposite and the two men inside just sit and stare, at me. They're not terrorists, they're poofs. This is everyday life.

People will always make generalisations but you find good and bad people everywhere. Unfortunately I think there are way more bad than good here. The school system brainwashes the kids and teaches them to hate. They are also taught to lie in the face of obvious truth: the earth is not flat, for example. Or, smashing into another vehicle, inflicting pain, even death, does not mean you are innocent because you are a Saudi and the other guy a foreigner. There is a TV show that sends the message that Saudis are planet earth's elite nationality Very Happy

You've got to laugh, that's the key and most of the guys on $100 a month do just that to survive their treatment.

I've been teaching adults all this time (I would never have survived 5 years teaching teenagers) and I can never escape the majority's negativity - bad mouthing any race or country or belief contrary to theirs; reluctance to work; always looking for a way out of working; natural rudeness; cheating; seriously pathetic childishness when they can't get their own way; sulking, etc. I have met some great characters too but I can count them on one hand, maybe two.

The best part of being here has been the sackful of cash I am leaving with plus amazing holidays and two great friends I've made - a Sudanese/Brit and a Palestinian/Jordanian. Because they speak Arabic they would completely agree with the negative descriptions being bandied about on here. Some of their stories are just hilarious, some make you want to take a machine gun downtown and do the world a favour.

After 5 years I have heard people blathering on and on about religion, but seen none in practice. It's an extremely empty and soulless patch of land. Culture? If driving around all day like a moron, eating greasy rice and sheep, and bending over forwards for the locals is culture then I've wanted no part of that.

Now let me out of here . Rolling Eyes

Gamajorba · Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 357

Gamajorba · Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 357

akoo1 · Joined: 06 Apr 2015 Posts: 87

Hi John,

Did you suffer any consequences from ignoring others? I imagine you were able to do this because you were at IPA, which is not exactly the kind of school environment most of us are based in. Perhaps this made all the difference. When i was interviewed for the IPA recently by a teacher working there, i got the vibe the other teachers, admin and director pretty much leave you be and let you do your own thing. Also, teachers close their office door so as not to socialize with other teachers (also to keep the air conditioning working better). This to me sounded like an easier place to be yourself and not always on guard for what other teachers may be saying or doing.

Were you successful in ONLY discussing work with other teachers? Controversial topics never came up? When did they, did you leave the room? They did they snarl at you for doing that?

Did you avoid the teachers room?

Were you accused of not being a team player?

I am just thinking as I go but avoiding other teachers is just not possible when you're expected to work together and share resources.

What happens if the the head teacher finds out there are personal problems between teachers? Does he get involved or let them sort it out? Do they ever sort it out? Or did grudges between teachers last months?

Finally, how did you avoid not being labelled an elitist or snob (someone who thinks he's too good to hang around other teachers).

Jaffa, why did they cuss at you? It seems to me some of your negative experiences are because of YOU and not just the Saudis. Don't forget you are also responsible for what happens to you in Saudi (and not just the Saudis). The stuff you discussed about Saudis exists in every country. Americans think they're the best. The Europeans think they're better than Americans. The Iranians think they're better than Arabs, Afghans, etc.. etc..

mnruman · Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Posts: 93 Location: Manchester, UK

Wow a lot of debating going on here Wink

I have been Saudi on a few occasions, now living in the UK and going to a country like Saudi can be a huge culture shock to anybody.

I remember being in the airport, queuing for our passports to be check. Along comes a saudi national walks right passed the que waves his passport and off he goes. On another occasion, I was trying to order some food at a burger king, no que system, constant pushing and shoving.

I wasn't overwhelmed by this behaviout because I had previously visited other coutries where similar practices occur. What we must understand is, thats just the way they are, there are as mentioned before good and bad in all types of people. Its best for us to look for the good and try not to let the bad get to us, otheriwse we would be misrable all out lives.