Job Discussion Forums

[Capergirl]

I've been teaching ESL (and EFL) for more than 3.5 years - 1.5 in Asia and 2+ here in Canada. It irks me to no end when people ask me why I don't go for my BEd (Bachelor of Education degree). I tell them that I already have a Bachelor's degree and that when I do resume my studies, it will be to get my Master's degree in applied linguistics, which I consider to be far more useful in this field than a BEd. "But if you get a BEd, you'll be a teacher" is the oft-heard response. I generally come back with, "I already am a teacher".

With qualifications that include a TESL certificate and a certificate in adult ed., added to my BA and nearly 4 years of teaching experience, why am I not accepted as a "real" teacher by anyone other than my fellow ESL instructors and my students?

Is there something magical about an education degree? Have I really missed something fundamentally important to my teaching career by not completing one? Will my MA - when I finally get it - shut these people up?

[moonraven]

Folks who get degrees in Education have always been scrapings from the bottom of the barrel--sorry if that's an insult, but historically it has been true. The people who are hassling you about not being a teacher are undoubtedly part of those scrapings. Ignore them. Why do you care what they think?

[veiledsentiments]

Sorry Moonraven, but you are dead wrong. Until not that many years ago - for instance when I entered university in the late 1960's - in other words 'historically'? - education was d a m n ed near the only choice a female of the English speaking species had. (except for nursing, of course - or you could be a secretary or waitress, I suppose)

So, in spite of the fact that I had the grades and SAT scores that would have well qualified me to get into Harvard or Yale - even their law schools, that wasn't even contemplated. After all, I was merely a woman - and heaven knows they just get married and have babies - they don't really even need an education. (teaching or nursing seem like 'motherly' things, so perhaps they are acceptable)

The scrapings of the bottom of the barrel are people who make ignorant generalizations like yours - sorry if that's an insult. Or perhaps you were just referring to men.

But as to Capergirl's question, I think anyone who has finished a degree and related certs is probably well qualified to teach. I have always felt that it is more of an art than a science. But, if you want to advance to the highest paying jobs in our field, the powers that be will usually demand degrees. (not to mention to get a bit of respect which is definitely lacking for teachers as shown by Moonraven's comment) An MA in ESL or Applied Linguistics would replace the related BA. It will definitely shut them all up.

VS

[Ludwig]

[Ludwig]

[Capergirl]

[Ludwig]

[lajzar]

Am I a real teacher? What is real anyway. All I am certain of I that I am really teaching, and my students are really learning from me. That is the only valid test when all is said and done.

I'll cheerfully admit I am not qualified to teach at a normal school in my home country, but given that there is little demand for EFL amongst school age children in the UK, I don't consider that a relevant criticism.

[hamel]

a lot of the "real" teachers don't seem to be able to live in foreign countries and i've found many of them to have this huge chip on their shoulder that gets on my nerves.

i've yet to find out how it makes them superior teachers--esp. when their field of knowledge is often so limited.

i think that on-the-job experience, creativity, and kindness (not the tough professional teacher mentality) goes a long way. but it's true that one usually can't teach professionally in the west without this certificate; but then again, apart from the wonderful kids/teens, how many of you would want to or be able to function in the public school setting?

esl teachers also have to try to be confident in their own unique abilities.

[guest of Japan]

I was a real teacher in my home country. I taught high school history.

There's a lot I learned in my training which is also useful in EFL. Mostly it has to do with psychology and learning theory. I also learned a lot about dealing with special needs students, which has been very valuable for me in teaching in high schools in Japan. The student teaching experience is also very valuable, as it gives you a chance to develop as a teacher.

However, there is a lot that does not match. I've been able to function in an EFL classroom, but it is only recently that I've begun to understand second language acquisition beyond an intuitive level. A cert. like CELTA has much to offer. An MA has much more.

VS made a remark about the choices women of her age bracket had back in the sixties. Every word of it is true, and I must say that most of the female teachers I've met and worked within that age bracket have been phenomenal. The men in that age bracket have not been (with exceptions). Most of the teachers I've worked with of my generation have also been less than stellar.

[chinagirl]

<stepping out of the way so as to avoid mud>

Teaching is a profession. Not all teachers are professionals. If you think of yourself as a professional, with the requisite knowlege to do your job, then good for you. In the U.S. and Canada, where a teaching credential is required to work in public schools, then of course there is a bias towards people without that credential and/or a master's degree.

I have been a "real teacher" (US, elementary school) and an EFL teacher on a couple of continents. I'm working on my master's in TESOL and my state certification now.

There's a lot to learn. Teaching is both an art and a science. I would hope that once you are a "real teacher," you wouldn't even have to ask. One of the previous posters commented about the requirements of international schools. That's where I hope to be in a couple of years.

Based on your other posts here, Capergirl, you have had a lot of really good teaching experiences. Obviously you *are* a teacher, but finishing a masters will convince everyone else of that, and will round out your work experience - you'll always be learning! You will then become a teacher of a higher caliber, hopefully!

By the way, grad school for me has been wonderful thus far. I have learned an incredible amount. Having about 4 years of teaching experience first all around the world and in various settings has really brought the coursework to life for me. Don't be so quick to knock a degree in education. A lot of master's in TESOL (as is mine) are through education schools, and are very worthwhile.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

B.Ed programmes are designed as pre-service programmes to teach kids. If you do not teach kids then it really isn't all that relevant. But when people say you would be a teacher they really mean you would be a teacher of kids- which people understand and is considered a very stable environment. That's why people probably keep saying it. A lot of people do not really understand teaching in the university/college setting. In Canada we have a big tendency to require more and more credentials, even for non-academic positions (that's why there's so many "post-gradtuate certificate" programmes at colleges and univerisites).

From her post, Capergirl has:
3.5years experience
TESL Cerificate (which could be a full time year in university- the same length of time as a B.Ed programme- many Canadian universities and colleges offer them)
Certificate in Adult Education (not sure of the duration, but I think it's a year)

I count two certificates related to eduaction there.

And I believe Capergirl teaches at a univerisity (I think I read that on a post earlier at some time). Most university profs/lecturers/teachers do not have a B.Ed. It's not really relevant because you need to choose a division: primary/junior, junior/intermediate or intermediate/senior. Teaching university students (and adults) doesn't fall into any of these categories . University students are supposed to behave like adults- they are responsible for themselves. Most university teachers (in non-education/ ESL related areas) have no credentials in eduacation at all- they have MA's and PHD's in their subject. Normally they do take a single course on teaching university students, but that's it.

In Toronto, a lot of the time people with Arts degrees are not taken seriously by prospective employers or others (there is a feeling that people who take arts degrees "Can't do math" or that arts degrees are easier than science or business related degrees). As soon as that person has a B.Education then it all changes. The only reason I can think of why this would be so, is that only one in ten applicants to B.Ed programmes in Ontario actually get in. But if your goal is not to teach primary or high school kids, then there's no point in doing it.

[nomadic]

[Bindair Dundat]

[Bindair Dundat]