Job Discussion Forums

[cnthaiksarok]

[Deats]

It depends on just how much you can get paid in Saudi - most posters on here won't tell you their salary, so how can we know what is really 'good' pay? Almost every time someone asks 'Is it a good offer?', the reply is 'No'.

I thought of trying Saudi, but was scared off by:

a) having to return to the UK to do a Masters, which would have set me and the missus back £50,000 + 1 years loss of earnings - around £100k in total for us combined.

b) Needing at least 2 years post MA experience to get a 'good' job.

c) The rubbish living/working conditions if you don't have an MA.

d) My wife decided she wanted to keep working and with a child you can't both work in Saudi due to the longer hours, but in China you can. Our 2 uni jobs will pay a combined $4000, whereas I couldn't get that for a 40 hour job in Saudi by myself - not to mention the headaches with Iqama, spouse visa blah blah.

We will go back to China. For 16 hours a week I will earn just short of $2000 a month. Then I can do private lessons at $35 an hour (more if I teach more than 1 kid at a time). If I do 24 hours a week of private lessons $840 a week x 4 = $3360 + $2000 = $5360 a month. Now I may be wrong, because like I said, many people aren't forthcoming on their contracts, but from what I saw most unis in Saudi require 40 hours (including office hours). So 40 hours in China you can get $5360, how about Saudi? Can you really get $5360 a month in Saudi with a BA? Or even an MA? Cost of living in China is surely cheaper. Then you don't have to worry about your wife having to dress in hijab etc and all those other customs that everyone so adores.

My guess is that you can save more in China than almost anywhere in Saudi - or the world for that matter. Of course, I may be wrong.

When I started out in China I had an unrelated BA and TEFL (only 100 hour online). After a year I had enough privates that I was clearing $3000 a month. The longer you are there the more privates you find = more money.

Sure there are these 'good' jobs in many countries that a very lucky few get. But they aren't the norm. In China, anyone can make great money and live how they please, with a little hard work.

[Makkah]

No "if's" in my job more the case "when" I go to work, do my job they pay me a lot. Very happy with it for two reasons.....money and a good reference Though, I wouldn't even be the slightest bit interested being here for the salaries that I currently see advertised....not really worth it.

[akoo1]

The fact that there's two of you, I believe affects matters greatly. For a single male, KSA is a better choice than China. To make big money on privates in China is doable, I did so in Beijing many years ago with moderate success. However, the commuting is tiring. Especially in summer. Back then the going rate was 150-200RMB/hour (which is low vs KSA).

Have you have found a job that offers you $2000 for 16 hours (and no other hours)? In which case, it sounds good. However, most jobs don't just hire you for 16 hours/week.

Passed that, the answer is no, it's hard to get $5000+ in Saudi on just a BA. Even many MA holders make less and accept it. There are many exceptions.

Living in China is cheaper, but to make the privates you suggested means living in the biggest cities. If the idea of massive city doesn't appeal, that means less money in China. Whereas in Saudi, those willing to teach in isolated areas (near the beautiful desert) make more money than people teaching in Chinese cities.

Also, China has several dozen annoying traits (less than KSA) but they are still annoying.

You will also discover if you do better research not everyone has a problem with the hijab. And if that's an issue, well fine (but it has NOTHING to do with making money). If you can't wear a hijab as a means to and end to make an extra one or more thousand dollars/month, well then it doesn't sound like money making/saving is your priority.

Priorities, priorities.

Doing 12 hours/day instead of three just doesn't make sense.

And China has a better standard of living than KSA? Why? By the stand of living, i hope you're not referring to housing? Is the average teachers provided apartment in China or Vietnam nicer than a hotel apartment or compound suite in KSA? Or does SOL mean vices? Alcohol? Since Asia has bars, brothels and the rest of it (the standard of living is higher)? And the food? How much cheap, refined white rice can you eat before splurging at Western restaurants? How can you then save money? In KSA, you SAVE more. In China, you SPEND more. Vietnam, you'll probably spend more.

The distractions and temptations for consumers are higher in China and Vietnam.

"...Entry level pay in KSA is $45,000USD, so around $4,000 a month. Let's say you save $3,500 of it, well that's nice and all, but is living in Saudi Arabia really only worth an extra $1,500 a month?

The quick answer is yes. However, the followup question is what is the entry level pay in China or Vietnam? Per year? Per month? And how much per month are you saving after living in the "higher standard of living"?

What does that mean anyways? Higher Standard of living. I think we need to examine the meaning here. Do you agree with the following definition:

The level of wealth, comfort, material goods and necessities available to a certain socioeconomic class in a certain geographic area.

If you do, I don't see how you can compare Vietnam to KSA. Please enlighten me.

To me SOL sounds like short hand for higher prices, lower savings.

Regarding teaching privates on the sly. Do you know any Western teacher who suffered the consequences of having private students? How did he/she get caught? What exactly happened? Do you personally know someone who paid even a month's salary penalty for teaching privates?

[Deats]

Yep, $2000 for a max of 16 hours a week.

I taught privates in Heilongjiang - a city of 2.6m and at one stage I had 25 hours of privates a week and I was turning them away because I had no spare slots. You don't have to be in a big city to get privates, you just have to be a good teacher and get the ball rolling. Word spreads fast. My price was only 150RMB cos it was the north, but working in the south 200RMB is much more realistic.

If it was just me in KSA, not so much of a problem. But I'm more concerned for my wife and her personal freedoms. Not just dress, but who she can socialise with, what she is and isn't allowed to do. In China, there are no such worries.

Even if I was single, I stand by what I wrote - $5360 a month is hard to beat. Also, all my privates I do from the comfort of my own apartment. I can't imagine many countries can offer such good opportunities - even for trained and experienced teachers.

[nomad soul]

[akoo1]

Your 16+24(privates at home) sounds good. I assumed you have to commute. Without commuting and also living in a smaller city like Helionjiang sounds like my kind of setup as well. How long did it take you to set that up? How many weeks/months? Were you hired before arriving to China (for the 16 hours)?

[Deats]

The uni gig in Heilongjiang was set up before leaving home, and my new gig in the south of China was also set up before leaving home. This new job ($2000) pays more than the uni in Heilongjiang did.

The privates started when other teachers wanted me to teach their kids. Then they told their friends about me and this got me other students from off campus, who would come to my house. I never once touted myself around. Every single student I got came to me through another student/teacher. My wife also found just as many students as me like this. Our house was a revolving door of Chinese kids for a few years

The first year was about building the base, then 2-4years we were really busy just maintaining what we already had. Depending on how desperate you are for privates, you could get a lot pretty fast if you pimp yourself around, which I am not at all comfortable doing. One guy had a load of business cards he would give to literally everyone he met. He was shameless - but he made a LOT of money.

Not 100% sure how we will go about privates in our new job as we have a kid to look after now. Maybe I will do them and my wife won't. May just go to one of the many language schools that offer 200RMB an hour and go work for them at weekends. Guaranteed hours and don't need sickly children in my house near the newborn, and also only need to work in one location. Not sure yet.

Regardless of my situation, my point is that really good money is to be made in China. I'd much rather do a lot of privates and make a lot of money, than just get wasted every day and sit at home doing nothing. I really want to retire whilst I am relatively young and enjoy my retirement.

[akoo1]

It sounds like we have similar ideas. Where is your new job located? I misunderstood your new job is in Helionjiang.

I'm curious to know what your situation was like in the first 3 months of arriving to PRC? Do you think you would have equal or greater success if the privates were adults?

Your approach of letting word of mouth do its job and have students over at home is really great. I had to board all manner of buses, metro trains and taxis to get between students. That more than anything else made me tired.

Can you elaborate what you mean by pimping out for privates? What was uncomfortable or shameful about it? Spamming people with business cards? How much more did the pimper make?

I am surprised to hear language centers still only pay 200RMB/hour. That was the rate 10 years ago in Shanghai. Beijing was 100-200RMB/hour.

[ghost]

Wondering how you can save $2000 in China per month? It does not compute, unless you were working at an international school with a salary in the 20,000 to 30,000 rmb salary range ($3000 - $4000 u.s. approx).

I teach privates but I get 150 rmb ($24 u.s) per hour for those classes. I would have to work all day and night to save $2000 per month, especially since my base salary is only around $1000 u.s. dollars.

Ghost in China

[Deats]

My new job is in Guangdong province.

The guy who pimped himself would go into a bar and his business cards would be out within minutes of a conversation starting. And he would be pushing the person he was talking to, to hand out his cards to the person's friends. He worked in a uni and when students asked for his help after class he would tell them he did private lessons if they needed help. He was just shameless. Everything was centred around how much money he could make.

I know he somehow conned 6 students to go to his house for lessons at the same time. He charged each one 200, so he got 1200 an hour! He would just do some BS like play Monopoly - an idea he got from us. It's ok to play games sometimes, but he would then just use the same 'lesson' over and over from what we were told. Some of his students were pretty angry that they were ripped off by him, as they expected real lessons, not just play time. With younger kids though there is way less planning necessary than with adults - especially if you teach several of a similar age/level.

One reason we never pimped ourselves is that it is still technically illegal to do private lessons, and we didn't want to get in trouble. Out FAO knew what we did and even found us students, but we didn't want to risk what we had by shouting our mouths off all over the city. Word travels fast in China - both to your benefit, but to your detriment if you are not careful.

My thinking is that you can't really think about what money you will get from privates in the first 3 months, because it is impossible to say how many students you will find. It could be none, it could be ten. Who knows. Also, it depends on how often your students want lessons. I always did 2 hour lessons. One student came every day of the week for some time, others twice a week, some once. You soon fill your time slots up if you have kids coming on multiple days and for 2 hours at a time.

[Deats]

Not sure how you figure that out Ghost? Saving $2000 is easy in China - once you have some privates built up. Or people who work in international schools can save that without even needing privates.

I've done the maths above in a post.

For you, you get $1000 a month from your uni. So you need $1500 a month more, which is 60 hours a month of privates - approx 14 hours a week. This is assuming you spend less than $500 a month (which is pretty easy), So what is hard about saving $2000? Seems easy to me - and that is only working 14 hours privates + 16 hours uni = 30 hours. Work more privates, or charge 200RMB a lesson and you easily save in excess of $2000 a month.

[AKChina]