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Angel.Ro
Joined: 09 May 2015
Posts: 59
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 Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 12:13 am Post subject: Question for Veteran teachers |
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Hey Guys,
I've seen on forums/blogs - as well as heard stories through my own social circle - that some people who initially set out to teach English overseas for a year or two, end up staying for 5-10 years.
I'm just interested to hear the stories of some of the veteran teachers here. Are there teachers here who have been teaching English a lot longer than originally planned, and if so, what lead you to extend your stay? |
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Seymour Glass
Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| I started teaching in China in 1986, and then went to Hong Kong and now in Taiwan...I planned to go back to grad school after paying off student loans, in the late 1980's I was working as a teacher in Kaohsiung at a language school, helping students get ready to pursue grad degrees abroad...I noticed that they were far from being what I would consider ready for grad school, which prompted me to try applying for a grad program in Taiwan. I figured if they could get a degree abroad, why couldn't I? I know many would say a grad degree from Taiwan wouldn't mean much elsewhere, so I stayed here. I learned a great deal studying for my master's and PhD here, which all had to be done in Chinese, and have been working as a professor in a department of philosophy since finishing my PhD...coming up on 29 years in total... |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| I've seen on forums/blogs - as well as heard stories through my own social circle - that some people who initially set out to teach English overseas for a year or two, end up staying for 5-10 years. |
Although English was not my area, I originally thought a couple of years , I have been here for 15 years... traveled in and out the first 5 and then moved to Beijing.... 11 years later.. I am retiring here with enough to work out some goals and enjoy myself .... long term relation ship of 9 years .... the introduction of Harley Motorcycles and housing assistant offered by my girls company will likely keep me in the Jing for some time to come... love the ability to fly to other countries and enjoy the hospitality of those who think riding a bike in the PRC is something special....Over all China is great.... and the ability to do unimaginable things here is welcome mat.. as they say, the "country is open to the NOMAD" |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| First came here in 1996 as deputy manager at a joint-venture training centre for a UK company. Spent almost 6 years commuting between here and UK. After 9/11, there was a huge downturn in the aviation industry, people losing their jobs everywhere, so the time was right to get out. I'd just got divorced as well and decided I needed a new start. At the time China seemed a natural choice. Moved to BJ in 2001 - did the round of language mills, universities, middle and high schools. Started working for a Chinese SOE 9 years ago - still with them. Regrets? Wish I'd done it sooner! |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I went to China with the thought of staying a year. I stayed 4. Decided I really like teaching, so moved to Russia and did 2 years there. Now I've decided that for all China's faults, it has many great things going for it. So I will move back in August. I think I will be there for at least the next 5 years. Depending on a range of things, it could be a lot longer. |
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Angel.Ro
Joined: 09 May 2015
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Deats wrote: |
| I went to China with the thought of staying a year. I stayed 4. Decided I really like teaching, so moved to Russia and did 2 years there. Now I've decided that for all China's faults, it has many great things going for it. So I will move back in August. I think I will be there for at least the next 5 years. Depending on a range of things, it could be a lot longer. |
How was Russia compared to China?
And any concern about being out of the work force in your home country for so long, if and when you decide to go back? |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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In China I did 16 hours a week in a uni - so easy.
In Russia I did 45+ hours a week in a private all boys boarding school. This job gave me way more job satisfaction, and taught me a lot more about teaching and the English language.
Both jobs paid about the same after the crisis in Russia. However, in China I made a lot more money because I did a lot of privates in my free time.
Away from work, both countries have pros and cons. It's nice to blend in, in Russia. In China you are clearly not one of them. This can be charming at first to hear 'Herrow' all the time, but soon gets tiresome. China is way cheaper to live in, but Russia has more things that I enjoy - like football and ice hockey. Russians have more in common than Chinese and in Russia people will be friends with you, whereas Chinese people just can't resist 'language raping' you. I.e. they force you into teaching them English non stop and have no interest on you as a person.
I never intend to go back home. I love teaching EFL. Also, it's a minefield to go back to the UK after living abroad. You have no resident rights (even though you are a citizen) for the first 3 years after moving back - this is utter BS. EU citizens, refugees and asylum seekers have these rights, but UK citizens don't. It affects things like studying - I would pay international fees, not home fees, if I want to do an MA. It would also play a role in my daughters education - she wouldn't qualify for home fees for things for the first 3 years. There are plenty of other things like this. Screw England. They treat foreigners better than their own. Utterly despicable country for reverse racism.
I'd rather live overseas, earn more money, have a higher position in society, better weather etc. By the time I am 50, I will have more than enough money to retire - maybe buy a little property in the Americas or set up a guest house in SE Asia. Who knows. If I went back to England, I'd be lucky to be able to retire before 70. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 7:01 am Post subject: language raping |
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| Russians have more in common than Chinese and in Russia people will be friends with you, whereas Chinese people just can't resist 'language raping' you. I.e. they force you into teaching them English non stop and have no interest on you as a person. |
To avoid that problem (speaking English) I often tell Chinese people, "wode Ingyu bu hao inwei woshi Quebec ren. Wode hua Fayu" or words to that effect, essentially telling them that I am a French Quebecer and my English is not so good....then they are 'forced' to speak to me in 'pidgin' Mandarin, which is what I need. I often do this away from the university, when I am in town....nobody speaks French here, so they are really left with no other option but to speak to me in Mandarin. At the university, cannot get away with that tactic too often, as I am known as an English teacher there. On the subject of French Quebecers, I have known quite a few who were EFL teachers in Taiwan (when I was there) who could not be classified as native speakers of English. They mostly came from places far away from Montreal, close to Quebec city, where many Quebec people speak little or no English....countries do not realize this when they hire some Canadians....that for many French Quebec people, English is, indeed, a foreign language, and it does not help that there is a historical background to that as well....been there and done that, as I used to teach ESL in a French language school board in Montreal....and Montreal is a cosmopolitan city, so you can imagine what it is like in French Quebec cities like Trois Rivieres, Rimouski, Baie Commeau, etc...you will hear no English up there, except on some of the TV stations.
Ghost in China |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| You are right Ghost, French Canadians use English as a second language - and are often not even that fluent in English. I've encountered this too. Also, white South Africans usually speak Afrikaans as their first language and English as their second. Most people seem oblivious to this. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:21 am Post subject: imperialism |
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| You are right Ghost, French Canadians use English as a second language - and are often not even that fluent in English. I've encountered this too. Also, white South Africans usually speak Afrikaans as their first language and English as their second. Most people seem oblivious to this. |
When I worked in Taiwan, there were loads of South Africans working there. Some, as you said, were Afrikaans speakers (Dutch) and a few others were English speakers....with the Afrikaners dominant in the EFL field abroad.
Going by that logic, in the EFL field it would be acceptable to recognize most educated Dutch and Scandinavians as fluent English speakers, since their mastery of English is often fluent, and often better than some of the official countries which are recognized as English language countries (Canada and South Africa) but have significant populations within whose first language is not English. But I think this is a somewhat controversial subject, open to debate....with no limits in sight, because each camp (those pro native speakers and those pro foreign nationals with perfect or nigh perfect mastery of English) could present very good arguments, but with no conclusion....because of cultural mores in place in the EFL field.
Of course, this is a pipe dream, and will probably never happen....but I feel bad for some unemployed Dutch, Scandinavians and other fluent speakers (Singapore nationals and many Filipinos) and many African countries, like Kenya and Uganda (I think the accent in English is much more clear in East Africa compared with West Africa) - because there are positions to be filled, that could be filled by those nationals, but they are not recognized as native speakers. Same could be said for some Indian people and other nations...(I knew some Nepalis teaching English in Saudi Arabia).
Back to Quebec - I found that French Quebecers who had grown up in Montreal and had a lot of contact with Anglophones were often fluent, and many completely bi-lingual. Those from remote areas of Quebec - if they did not move to an English environment fairly young - would usually always have an 'accent' and other language signs, which showed they were not native speakers of English.
Ghost in China |
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mandu
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 794
Location: china
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: |
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this is my 15th year here in China(Shenzhen)I was going to stay for just one year then I met a girl we got married 8 years later we got divorced.
now Im married again I have an almost 2 year old boy (half chinese half Kiwi) and very cute. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:38 am Post subject: Re: imperialism |
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| ghost wrote: |
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| You are right Ghost, French Canadians use English as a second language - and are often not even that fluent in English. I've encountered this too. Also, white South Africans usually speak Afrikaans as their first language and English as their second. Most people seem oblivious to this. |
When I worked in Taiwan, there were loads of South Africans working there. Some, as you said, were Afrikaans speakers (Dutch) and a few others were English speakers....with the Afrikaners dominant in the EFL field abroad.
Going by that logic, in the EFL field it would be acceptable to recognize most educated Dutch and Scandinavians as fluent English speakers, since their mastery of English is often fluent, and often better than some of the official countries which are recognized as English language countries (Canada and South Africa) but have significant populations within whose first language is not English. But I think this is a somewhat controversial subject, open to debate....with no limits in sight, because each camp (those pro native speakers and those pro foreign nationals with perfect or nigh perfect mastery of English) could present very good arguments, but with no conclusion....because of cultural mores in place in the EFL field.
Of course, this is a pipe dream, and will probably never happen....but I feel bad for some unemployed Dutch, Scandinavians and other fluent speakers (Singapore nationals and many Filipinos) and many African countries, like Kenya and Uganda (I think the accent in English is much more clear in East Africa compared with West Africa) - because there are positions to be filled, that could be filled by those nationals, but they are not recognized as native speakers. Same could be said for some Indian people and other nations...(I knew some Nepalis teaching English in Saudi Arabia).
Back to Quebec - I found that French Quebecers who had grown up in Montreal and had a lot of contact with Anglophones were often fluent, and many completely bi-lingual. Those from remote areas of Quebec - if they did not move to an English environment fairly young - would usually always have an 'accent' and other language signs, which showed they were not native speakers of English.
Ghost in China |
If a low-mid level English language speaker is listening to a non-native speaker from another country (or even a native speaker with a strong accent that they aren't familiar with) it can be extremely difficult for them to understand. Many times more difficult than understanding a native speaker. Even some of my students, who are basically fluent in English, can barely understand an Italian-American speaking as a non-native speaker (we watched a gangster movie and they were asking me if it was really English or not).
If you're a native speaker and someone has a Swedish accent it doesn't matter much, but to a non-native speaker not from Sweden, seemingly especially in China, it makes a huge difference.
I've always wondered if there are some people with strong Scottish accents wandering around China giving classes to bewildered Chinese students.
I came here with the intent not to go back to America so don't really fit the question at hand. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Students sometimes just take time to get used to a new speaker. Regardless of how clear their accent is, it will be different from that of their last teacher.
If their teacher is Scandinavian, a Chinese person wouldn't even know they weren't a native as there are SO MANY accents amongst native speakers, and many Scandinavians don't have distinct accents. But Chinese students are sometimes douches. They will ask where someone is from and then say 'Yeah I could tell by your voice', even though they can only speak a handful of words. They have done this to my Russian wife before. The funny thing is, many expats think she is English, but somehow a student with beginner level claims to be able to guess (funny how they can only guess once they know where she is from hahaha). When we ask foreigners where they think she is from nobody usually guesses right. And that's even when they can see her.
It doesn't really matter which country a person comes from, it depends who they learnt English from. If your parents and friends speak with thick accents, then you probably will too. So for some non-native speakers, who learnt from people with good pronunciation, their accents can be way easier to understand than a native speaker.
Also some native speakers talk so damn fast, that it is prohibitive to learning. Funnily enough my wife speaks quite fast in real life, but understands that you need to slow down depending on who you are teaching.
It's too 'easy' to categorise teachers into native and non-native. I've met so many horrific native speaker teachers, but that doesn't mean they are all bad. Same goes with non-natives. Both groups have advantages and disadvantages in the classroom - a non-natives biggest advantage is they learnt English the same way as it needs to be taught. A native however will know more about culture, idioms and so on. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| If you're a native speaker and someone has a Swedish accent it doesn't matter much, but to a non-native speaker not from Sweden, seemingly especially in China, it makes a huge difference. |
Maybe in China, but Europeans commonly use English as a common language. For example, a German speaker would have little difficulty understanding the English of a Swedish speaker, in most cases, given that both are reasonably fluent. Keep in mind that most public/state schol English teachers in Central/Northern/Eastern Europe are qualified locals, not native speakers of the language. They do a pretty darn good job overall. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
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| If you're a native speaker and someone has a Swedish accent it doesn't matter much, but to a non-native speaker not from Sweden, seemingly especially in China, it makes a huge difference. |
Maybe in China, but Europeans commonly use English as a common language. For example, a German speaker would have little difficulty understanding the English of a Swedish speaker, in most cases, given that both are reasonably fluent. Keep in mind that most public/state schol English teachers in Central/Northern/Eastern Europe are qualified locals, not native speakers of the language. They do a pretty darn good job overall. |
It totally throws my students off. Fine for Europe maybe where there's so much more opportunity (and perhaps need) to speak English in their real life and to people who speak it as a second language.
Chinese students talk to each other pretty much exclusively in Chinese and seldom speak to foreigners outside of their teachers. Almost never. I can't think of any movie or TV show they might watch it. |
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