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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China
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 Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I will have one required seminar, which I'm looking forward to, and sounds similar to what you are talking about. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
MA Literature vs MA TESOL
It depends upon where one wants to teach. I have a BA in English Studies (a good mix of linguistics, literature, and composition), an MA in Literature and an MFA in Writing (both of which also include linguistics electives) . This does not diminish my attractiveness to better Chinese universities. What I bring to classes of Chinese university English majors satisfies the demands of a Chinese University curriculum better than what an MA in TESOL imparts to the teacher solely because in the university setting, the teacher consciously relies much more heavily upon content than methodology. (This is true in American Universities as well, largely because it is assumed that by the time one has earned an MA -- in anything--- the graduate has taught enough seminars and has done student teaching to be an effective teacher. Though this is not always the case, it is the common wisdom ). |
My undergrad was in English and Musicology. I also have postgraduate qualifications in professional writing (one-year 'cert'), and two postgrad qualifications in language teaching (one year 'cert' and an MA).
It's not about content versus methodology. It's about content to specific target audience. And that target audience is "English language learners" (to widely varying levels) most of the time when you are overseas (you cannot teach business English to even very high level learners in the same manner you would teach in an MBA to native speakers, even if you were hired on the basis of having an MBA. It's a different audience).
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| The TESOL is extremely valuable to the teacher of lower grades (primary through high school) where the teacher's knowledge of the "how" of education is as important as the "what". In primary and in secondary education, the teacher will be required to prevail upon a bag of methods to get through to students of different levels of abilities and motivation. |
Teacher training is designed to teach someone how to teach a specific target audience (pr~jr/ jr~int /int~sr/ adult) a specific subject or subjects. Postgraduate qualifications in TESOL are designed to teach English to Speaker of Other Languages to Adults. They are DESIGNED to teach university / tertiary students (or adults newcomers to the country) and that is the goal of almost everyone who does a degree in TESOL.
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Comparing the MA TESOL to MA Literature/humanities: When one decides to return home, the MA TESOL could lead to more and higher-paying jobs in primary and secondary schools (with certification, of course), and possibly American universities... (The MFA will allow him to teach upper-level literature and advanced writing classes). Generally, if the MA Lit teacher wants to teach literature on the university level, he'll need to study for a PH.D or an MFA |
Again, the target audience of the majority of MA TESOL programs are university students- not primary or secondary students. An MA in literature in Canada alone qualifies you to do nothing at all. You need to add another qualification (a PhD to teach university, a B.ed to teach high school etc, a postgrad cert in publishing to get into a publishing house, a postgrad in PR to get into a PR agency etc). It's a humanities MA. MFAs in Creative writing of course are for becoming writers but people also teach creative writing with them (to college or university students. Unless you also did a B.ed to teach senior high school, in which case you could teach creative writing at that level- but that alone wouldn't qualify for entry into a B.ed program. To teach senior high, you need two 'teachables'). It would also be useful for working in the publishing industry in editorial departments (again, if you were to get a qualification in publishing). Upper level literature classes would not be in the picture in Canada at least (short of some major staffing problems- the kind that just do not happen in developed areas).
I think if you've lucked out an found a good fit for your particular education (with the high level Chinese uni's), then that's great, but don't assume that that's the way things generally work, because it isn't. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: M.A. Literature vs M.A. Applied Linguistics / TESOL |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
I'm applying for master's programs but would like to know which would be better for securing university EFL teaching positions - Master's in Literature or a Master's in App. Ling. / TESOL?
A friend teaching in Korea tells me I should earn a master's of literature, specifically Canadian or American literature. He said that most of the Korean professors in the English Department had doctorates in Shakespeare.
Another friend said that a master's in applied linguistics or TESOL should be enough to get a university teaching position.
Any further comments on the suitability of each degree for teaching TEFL at a university? |
University students seem to be most interested in reading (texts are often in English- medicine or pharmacology for example), listening and reading. Gotta pass that IELTS (or equivalent) exam. Speaking is nice but not as important to their goals. Hope this helps you decide what course to take.
I've seen literature taught at an international school for example. Being published can also be a criterion for work at a University. You need to find a site where you can speak directly to people who teach at Universities and maybe international schools. It seems that you're not getting responses here from people with real, long term experience in what you're asking about. |
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nwtefl
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 148
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| I have a Masters in Renaissance and Romantic Literature, which has been of no use to me anywhere, and also a Masters in Applied Linguistics. I'm not making any specific point by the way ! |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I personally think that many MA in TESOL programs are not that good. So many institutes offer these courses and the actual quality of the courses can vary enormously. I know of a friend who started a MA in TESOL at a mid tier university in the US and he actually asked for his money back and left after the first few weeks - the course was so disorganised and poor.
My other concern is that many of these courses don't offer enough modules on teaching practice. There is an awful lot of emphasis on applied linguistics, phonology, history of World Englishes or whatever, and comparatively little on teaching methodology or classroom observations.
I have heard a number of people say that the DELTA/Trinity diploma prepares people better for TEFL teaching compared to most MA in TESOL programs and I would tend to agree.
Added to this, is the fact that so many teachers are doing these programs online and it makes me wonder how much 1-1 instruction and informed feedback on your actual teaching is possible. |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
| My other concern is that many of these courses don't offer enough modules on teaching practice. There is an awful lot of emphasis on applied linguistics, phonology, history of World Englishes or whatever, and comparatively little on teaching methodology or classroom observations. |
I suspect that this is largely true. In my own experience as an MA TESL student, I took courses like grammar and phonology yet was pretty much left to my own devices regarding practical classroom methods for teaching grammar or pronunciation. Don't get me wrong. Understanding how language is structured is super important, but that in and of itself is not sufficient to make one a good teacher.
Keeping in mind that the MA typically prepares one for teaching in higher education, the above-mentioned problem is not unique to the discipline of ESL, at least in the sphere of higher-ed. At my community college--where instructors are getting paid to actually teach rather than simply do research and publish--my colleagues in disciplines like philosophy, history, sociology, and so forth are all content-experts in their respective fields but, with the occasional exception of a teacher here or there who previously taught in the public schools--they have no formal training in pedagogy beyond the occasional faculty in-service workshop. Strange as that may be, this seems to be an acceptable state of affairs in higher-ed that few, if any, ever question.
In that regard, I'm not a whole lot unlike my colleagues in other disciplines in that I am a content expert in English language (e.g., grammar, phonology, history, etc.) with limited formal training (beyond a two course sequence in methods and theory of second language teaching) in how to actually teach the content in which I am an expert.
There are exceptions, of course. I have colleagues who have graduated from MAT programs from places like SIT and Marlboro where there seems to be a strong emphasis on the pedagogy of language teaching and, more importantly, actually applying that pedagogy to one's own classroom.
But, by and large, the prevailing model for MA TESL programs seems to be consistent with the expectations and culture of higher-ed across the board, regardless of one's actual academic discipline.
| currentaffairs wrote: |
| I have heard a number of people say that the DELTA/Trinity diploma prepares people better for TEFL teaching compared to most MA in TESOL programs and I would tend to agree. |
That's probably true and most prospective MA students would do well to seriously consider pursuing options such as CELTA/SIT TESOL and, possibly, even DELTA en route to obtaining the MA. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not a global expert on MA programs, but having a British MA and knowing a number of other teachers who do as well, it seems to me that there is - at least optionally - more focus on pedagogy in British TESL/TEFL MA degrees. My own two-year program was entirely focused on pedagogy and curriculum, in fact, and included a semester of hands-on practice. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| esl_prof wrote: |
| There are exceptions, of course. I have colleagues who have graduated from MAT programs from places like SIT and Marlboro where there seems to be a strong emphasis on the pedagogy of language teaching and, more importantly, actually applying that pedagogy to one's own classroom. |
That describes my MAT as well. It's essentially an advanced teaching degree.
I was required to write lesson plans, create activities, and apply and analyze language teaching strategies in quite a few of my courses relevant to the content and context. For my teaching practicum portfolio, I also had to address specific teaching standards as well as incorporate elements from my previous coursework. My portfolio ended up being more than 60 pages in length by the end of the semester. |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for sharing, Spiral and Nomad!
I think our collective experience underscores the fact that there is quite a bit of diversity from one MA TESL program to another. Here in the States, for example, MA (or MAT) TESL degrees can be housed in university departments of English, Education, or Linguistics and, thus, the focus (theoretical vs. practical) will vary significantly depending on who is offering the degree. In general, I've observed that education departments (which often use the nomenclature MAT or MEd in lieu of MA) tend to be more pedagogically focused and, often (but not always), focus more on the needs of K-12 teachers rather than those of instructors in adult or higher-ed. They also offer the option to pick up education-related electives in areas like education administration, educational psychology, or school counseling. Departments of linguistics tend to be more theoretical. And English departments, depending on the university, can go either way and, in addition, often offer the option to take electives in related fields like literature, composition and rhetoric, or communications.
Bottom Line: Do your research. Set clearly defined goals for what you want out of a graduate education. Then choose a program that helps you to meet those goals. And, furthermore, keep in mind that graduate education is just one--albeit significant--piece of a lifelong professional development program. So be aware of the limitations of the program you choose and have a plan for filling in those gaps in your training via other professional development activities. |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| So, there were no classroom observations and feedback on your teaching practice on either of those MA programs? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So, there were no classroom observations and feedback on your teaching practice on either of those MA programs |
As noted above, there was on mine. |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
| So, there were no classroom observations and feedback on your teaching practice on either of those MA programs? |
Not in my program. And, unlike some programs where you can opt to take a for-credit supervised practicum as an elective, that wasn't an option for us.
I did, however, work as a graduate TA (which was a misnomer as I was the instructor of record and hardly "assisted" anyone) for three semesters and my classes were occasionally observed by our department chair or other experienced instructors. While feedback was helpful, I doubt it was anywhere on par with the type of rigorous feedback one would get in a CELTA or CELTA equivalent program. That being said, being a TA was optional and, in theory, one could have enrolled in and completed the entire program without acquiring any classroom teaching experience whatsoever (or, for that matter, having any previous teaching experience, though most of us did). In practice, most of my classmates were either TAs or employed in local public or private K-12 schools and most of us, I think, were pretty diligent about reflecting on what we were learning and being intentional about applying it in our classrooms. That being said, a bit more structure and rigor on the application side would have been helpful.
In some regards, my experience as a "TA" wasn't entirely unlike this:
http://chronicle.com/article/Academic-Bait-and-Switch/46949/ |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| esl_prof wrote: |
| In general, I've observed that education departments (which often use the nomenclature MAT or MEd in lieu of MA) tend to be more pedagogically focused and, often (but not always), focus more on the needs of K-12 teachers rather than those of instructors in adult or higher-ed. |
Ditto that. My MAT came under secondary education. However, my degree program was customizable, so I was able to focus on the learning needs of both youngsters and adults. By the way, my major is in Multidisciplinary Studies with TEFL as the emphasis. (My diploma doesn't indicate my major or focus area.) I could have pursued licensure, but my interest has always been in adult learning.
| currentaffairs wrote: |
| So, there were no classroom observations and feedback on your teaching practice on either of those MA programs? |
My ESOL practicum required a minimum of 135-hours for the semester with at least 12 of those hours for observed teaching practice. I had a cooperating and a supervising teacher---both separately observed my classroom teaching numerous times. There were feedback sessions and evaluations, plus, I was required to write a self-reflection after each teaching session.
I had a good laugh in Saudi Arabia when some of my colleagues asked me when I would be completing the CELTA. They had never heard of a master's degree that included a practical component. |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Ditto that. My MAT came under secondary education. However, my degree program was customizable, so I was able to focus on the learning needs of both youngsters and adults. By the way, my major is in Multidisciplinary Studies with TEFL as the emphasis. (My diploma doesn't indicate my major or focus area.) I could have pursued licensure, but my interest has always been in adult learning. |
In practice, I'm not so sure there's a particularly significant difference between a class of high schoolers and a class of eighteen year-old college freshmen. Certainly, there is sufficient overlap to make the secondary focus fairly relevant to what you have ended up doing in the Middle East. Some of my freshman classes, when I was in Puerto Rico, felt more like I was teaching middle school than actual college students. Very different from the demographic at my current school (an ethnically diverse urban community college) where most of my students are working adults in their 30s and 40s, and the occasionally immature nineteen year old quickly learns to act like an adult as soon as he realizes that he's the only kid in the room. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
| So, there were no classroom observations and feedback on your teaching practice on either of those MA programs? |
In mine (on-campus, US, 2 years), there was a 1-semester teaching practicum in which we independently taught a 14-week (2 hours per week) ESL course, and were observed by other students in our cohort and by TESOL professors. I was also a TA (although, like esl_prof, I was the instructor of record) for 4 semesters. This MA TESOL program was in a linguistics department.
Every program is going to be different. You really need to investigate the program before you enroll to make sure it has what you want. |
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