Job Discussion Forums

[matador]

Why is it that people go to China (basic wage 5000RMB + housing (value of 1500RMB if shared), when someone with zero experience can go to Japan and start on a basic of 250,000yen (19.000RMB + housing) and with income tax in China(20%) v. Japan(5-8%).....er....why China??

[Ariadne]

Maybe we have already been to Japan and need a change of scenery.

[marymarywuwhereareyou]

I think for most people, myself included, the decision to teach in China is influenced by both percuniary and personal reasons. The pay is undoubtedly better in Japan or Korea, however, in China one has the opportunity to live in a nation that is developing into a global force, learn the language spoken by over a billion people, teach at colleges and universities (with just a college degree and a little teaching experience in my case), to say nothing of the quality programming on CCTV... Plus, I suspect the cost of living is lower in China versus regions that offer higher salaries. Lastly, coming from a job where 60hr work weeks were the norm, I must admit I'm looking forward to 8-10 in-class hrs/week. Just my two cents...

[lagerlout2006]

I suppose there are as many reasons as there are teachers...For me easier class load and the chance to travel on long holidays maybe? Believe it or not a lot of people have very little interest in Japan...

I don't know about these numbers. Tax is not 20% here. There is a thread on this. And the teaching load is half or less here--on average. So if said person does 15 OT classes a week he would be on 11000 with a lot more free time. Not such a big differnce when you consider Japanese rent and living costs...Salary is almost the same really if you consider what you do for it.

(Then again I learned yesterday from Ludwig that Hong Kong is cheaper than the Mainland so anything is possible. )

[bendan]

I have a few points:

On 5000 yuan a month you would pay 75 yuan tax.

In Japan, housing is generally not included, as far as I know.

I think most teachers in China have their own apartment, while most in Japan share.

Given the huge difference in purchasing power of $1 between the two countries, it doesn't seem so surprising that some people come to China.

Personally, I think that, assuming you have no particular reason to go to one place in Asia rather than another, Korea is the best choice for a combination of a comfortable lifestyle and high savings. China offers the former but not the latter, Japan offers one or the other, but not both.

[matador]

Okay...what exactly ARE the income tax rates in China (up to 5000RMB...Up to 10000RMB...up to 15000RMB?

[bendan]

For a foreigner, the first 4,000 is tax free. (There may be a marginal difference here in some big cities, as I think you get the Chinese allowance plus 3200. Nearly everywhere, the Chinese allowance is 800, but I heard it was different in Shenzhen)

The next 500 is taxed at 5%
The next 1500 (from 4500 to 6000) is taxed at 10%
The next 3000 (from 6000 to 9000) is taxed at 15%
From 9000 up to, er, quite a lot more, the tax rate is 20%

It goes all the way up to 45% I think, but I've never earned above the 20% band.

Anyway...

If you earn 5000, you should pay 75 yuan.
If you earn 10,000, you should pay 825 yuan.
If you earn 15,000, you should pay 1,825 yuan.

Note that I use the word "should". I, of course, pay every penny, but there may be one or two who do not

By the way, there are a variety of things that are tax deductible if you have proper receipts, including your rent.

[Louis]

Less work. No degree required. Plus, the people are really quaint, which is fun.

[cheekygal]

bendan, thank you for the information!

[shenyanggerry]

Japan has a work culture where sixty plus hour weeks are the norm. China doesn't. I like my sixteen (50 minute) hour week.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

There are many reasons:

- No degree required (at least people can get around the requirement)

- America and China have no extradition treaty worth mentioning

- Many ESL teachers who simply can't get work in Japan or Korea because of age, race, looks, weight, etc.

- Easy living

- Better than living off a pension

[brsmith15]

I have been told by "informed sources" that as of 2004, foreigners pay no taxes for their first 2 years on a new job. I make a rather high teaching salary for China -- well into the 5 figures per month -- and pay no tax. When you reach your 2 year limit, you simply leave and return.

If any of you are paying taxes and are under the 2 year limit, see you paymaster.

[bendan]

Some countries have such arrangements on a bilateral basis for academics, but I've never heard of one being applied accross the board to all foreigners. I didn't pay tax when I worked at a junior college in Korea, but if I had worked in a hagwon (a private language school) I would have had to pay.

It's possible China will establish a similar scheme with some western countries, but I think it would only apply if you were working at a state college. Most teachers at these institutions make 5000 yuan or less a month (officially), so there wouldn't be much of a saving.

Lots of foreigners don't pay tax on earnings above 4000, but I don't think it's because of the reason you suggest.

[Xin]

There is a tax treaty between China and the USA.

http://www.intltaxlaw.com/TREATIES/CHINA/frontpage.htm

There is a teacher exemption. (see Article 19)

A BA is required to teach in China.
"Those in search of language teaching positions in universities and institutions of higher learning should have a good grasp of their native languages and literature and should have at least three years' language teaching experience. They should be able to speak their native language in standard pronunciation and intonation." (1994, Guide for Foreign Experts Working in China, State Bureau of Foreign Experts, republished in 1998 and 2002)

"1. Who can be considered foreign experts working in China ?
Foreign experts who are invited to work in China can be divided into the following:
1. Foreign educational, scientific, cultural and medical experts.
These refer to those experts who are employed by the Chinese schools and other educational establishments in such fields as publication, medicine, scientific research, culture and art, and sports. They should hold bachelor's degrees and have more than two years of experience." SAFEA GUIDE FOR FOREIGN EXPERTS WORKING IN CHINA Zheng Huaisheng Chen Yangjin EDITOR- IN - CHIEF

There is a clampdown coming on those "getting around" these requirements.

[Roger]

Tax in China is pretty high but not applied universally as local administrations don't always know how to collect their dues from taxpayers.
Until China joined the WTO, all foreign nationals were on tax holiday for up to five years. SInce joining the WTO, we are technically supposed to be paying taxes for income above 4000 RMB a month though the first 4000 is tax-free.
I once paid 25% on an income that varied from month to month, but always exceeded 5000 a month. I got tax receipts, which I keep as I might have to show them when I leave China.
Don't worry just yet - many schools also negotiate special deals. My university told me we were supposed to pay tax on our airfare refund; due to the negotiation skills of our FAO, this has been waived (if his story is to be trusted...).