Job Discussion Forums

[fchris171]

I'm going to have a little rant about IELTS here and see what replies I get.

Seriously, the marking for this exam is ridiculous. I've been teaching for some time now, around Asia and mostly in Beijing. I'm also CELTA qualified (Grade B) so I like to think that I know my stuff.

This bloody exam is ridiculous though and I can't get my head around how they mark it. What's more, there seems to be a huge difference between where you take it.

I've had totally fluent students, not to mention by perfectly fluent wife, take the exam and get similar speaking and writing scores to students of mine who struggle to even form a normal sentence let alone an academic level sentence.

Over and over again I'm hearing from my students that they achieved band 8 scores in listening and reading (the 2 that are pretty straight forward to mark) yet achieve only band 5 or 6 scores in speaking and writing.

I know the standard for teachers is low in this country but I would have thought that the IELTS examiners would know what they are doing.

Well today I've had enough and will instigate my first appeal for an exam paper to be sent to Cambridge for it to be remarked.

[hdeth]

No examiner is perfect...look what a crapshoot visa interviews are and they get lots of training. Examiners always have their biases and opinions. I find it hilarious how people think you can write a rule or rubric and that will solve all the problems.

Actually, helping students practice for their visa interview, I found that some of the best students tended to shoot themselves in the foot. They've learned all this vocabulary and want to use it and end up droning on somewhat off-topic. Several of the students who were pretty much fluent in English I gave an F. I let them re-take it with a bit of advice on KISS principles and most of them did much better. I could easily see the same thing happening with IELTS.

[buravirgil]

[nigel2]

"...sent to Cambridge." Are you sure? I'd check the postmark first.

Read your "Enquiries on Results" application form very carefully.

[Deats]

My wife is the best non-native I have met - her CPE score is 227/230. (CPE is way harder than IELTS). However, she really had to study specific material to achieve this score. It is no good just knowing general English - you must answer questions and speak in a certain way. They are looking for you to use key terminology in speaking and writing. If you don't use the correct phrases, you are marked down. When she took the mock tests before revising the official book, her score was lower than this.

I studied history at university and a lot of it is about your technique in writing essays. It's not only what you know but how you convey this information. I helped my wife with her writing because I have experience of writing essays and comparing and arguing both sides of the discussion. At first my wife would just write what she thought, and I needed to explain that you must write both the pros and cons for BOTH sides of the argument (obviously with introduction and summary).

I'm not sure about IELTS but in CPE you have one speaking task with a partner and one by yourself. If you don't speak for an equal time you are marked down. If you don't share opinions and come to a conclusion, you are marked down etc. It's not only about pronunciation and grammar.

In writing you must compare and contrast arguments etc. If you are unable to write constructively arguing the points, then it doesn't matter how good your English is. Actually, many native speakers would do poorly on such tasks.

Sometimes I think these tests are rather unfair as they don't solely test your English ability. But that's the way it is.

Therefore a person with poor English, but logical thinking can do better than someone with outstanding English.

I would recommend buying the official IELTS learning material as they take you through step by step what is required from your answers.

This is why I hate it when ESL nobodies think they can teach IELTS - they can't. I refused to teach IELTS to my private students because I couldn't, in all good faith, teach them the specifics of what they needed to pass the test, as I had not read enough about the particulars of the exam.

Just because you speak English doesn't mean you know something about the IELTS exam or what is required. And having a CELTA really isn't proof of your competency. Anyone who is a native speaker can get one of these with no problem.

Where I was teaching in Russia (secondary school) we had to prepare students for their exams and it was the same problem. Often the most fluent students scored the lowest marks for speaking. They would ramble on about nothing and not stick to the point or do what was expected from them. They needed coaching about how to answer these questions. It took quite a bit of work to train them to answer the correct way.

I think you may get a nasty surprise when the marks come back and have not been changed.

[Zhejiang_Man]

The key component of part 2 of the IELTS speaking exam is content; explain, describe, use a wide range of adverbs & adjectives.

I’ve worked with native speakers of English who, when asked to explain or describe some place, can only offer comments such as: “It’s really cool! Or It’s so beautiful!” Even as native speakers, responses such as those would earn them an IELTS band of 5 or less.

Similarly, when I was teaching IELTS preparation in China, it (eventually) didn’t surprise me that certain students who were able to speak English fluently were given a mid or low band for the IELTS speaking exam because there opinions / assessments / appraisals of issues / places / people were too simplistic

[fchris171]

To Deats and Zhejiang_Man, I fully understand your points about how students actually answer IELTS questions and this is one of the first things I address. My rant was purely aimed at the huge discrepancies in the marking, especially between different examination centres. This relates to my own students, my friends students and even scores achieved by friends and family in the past.


To Buraviril, well done. Now that you've proven your excellent ability to analyse forum posts and demonstrate your outstanding English proficiency you can maybe go outside and get a life.

[jimpellow]

A few comments you probably already know:

I always thought there was a certain arrogance with IELTS examiners not wanting to give say, a 6 on writing unless it was exceptional.

With all the brain dumps out there, I can see why some students score higher on listening and reading. Chinese also watch a lot of English speaking movies and prefer to read English rather than speak it.

They have a hard time being able to understand how important structure is in English for communication, which IELTS is big on past the 4th-5th band for writing and speaking.

I would have students travel half way across the country to take IELTS in a place known in theory to be easier.

[spiral78]

[Sashadroogie]

It's not about content. IELTS awards marks based on the range of language that an educated user of English would be expected to use. Even native speakers who are poorly educated and thus have limited vocabulary wouldn't score well in the speaking test.

[bograt]

[jimpellow]

[fchris171]

Hi Bograt, I've just PM'd you a little question that I hope you can help me with.

Wouldn't normally chase this up but it relates to my wife.

[Non Sequitur]

I think a search would probably locate a thread on why TOEFL is inferior to IELTS!
Most Western unis provide an equivalency, so there is no exclusion if a student does one instead of the other.
The problem in my view for students who are attempting IELTS into a first degree programme in the West is that they've been fixated on the Gao Kao for the last one or two years*.
The GK has no speaking component and it would be hard to see how the 6 or so million GK candidates could be tested one on one.
* The GK can be attempted more than once and many go around again in the hope of getting a better grade, which in turn would get them into a higher ranked Chinese school.
I think FTs should advocate for more electives which students can choose to attend and which concentrate on oral skills along the lines of those needed for the testing systems.
Electives should be part of your weekly hours. Don't get conned into doing them like an English Corner, which generally don't count as contact hours.

[theoriginalprankster]

Keep in mind a lot of examiners in China are new to the job, as BC booted out anyone who wasn't willing to relocate to GZ, SH, CQ or BJ. It was a purge of sorts.

So, they are inexperienced (training for the job is a whopping day!)

And you have the old crew, who for the most part are jaded, bored of the job, and have heard/seen the same old crapola over and over again. Some of them hate giving a 6 or higher.

I know I was bored stiff after a month, but did it for four years.

I always tried to pull the best out of 4.5 or 5.5ers to get them up to 5 or 6.