Job Discussion Forums

[Jandoraa]

I've read that the wording of the z visa regulations is what, in some cases, allows people to have a z visa with no degree. I read that the official wording says the applicant "should" hold a bachelors degree, not "must". This, so I read, allows some smaller places to use their own discretion when interpreting the regulations. Does this sound possible at all?

[Deats]

That makes sense as many people in China work without a degree.

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

I don't think so. I've been shopping employers and I have read many employment proposals that say "No Degree Necessary." (I'm degreed and have several years experience in China). To get around the consulate's directives, the school will probably send the applicant an invitation letter for something other than a Z visa.

Out of curiosity, I responded to such an ad and received a cagey reply that didn't really answer my question about the Z visa requirement.

After all the hubub about the Chinese government's tightening of regulations for foreign teachers, it's no surprise that little has changed.

[Jandoraa]

Interesting that all the hubub has brought about little to no change. I've no desire to work illegally, so of course I'm hoping to find some sort of loophole that would allow me to work legally in China without holding a bachelors degree. If not, I think Columbia will be where I focus on.

I imagine there are many people who don't hold a bachelors degree that are excellent teachers and many who do hold a bachelors degree who are not excellent teachers. I understand the idea that if one has completed their undergrad they are likely more qualified, but I can think of several people I've met who were not any better at their job in spite of their degree. In today's market many people are unable to afford a degree. It seems to me making that a requirement cuts out a great many people who might have a talent for teaching.

Is someone who holds an unrelated degree, say in mathematics or science, anymore qualified to teach English to children than someone who has 5 years of university and 10 years experience working with children? I know this is a controversial topic and one that's been gone over again and again so I'll spare us all the agony and stop now. My original question was related to wording of the z visa requirements. If I find any more information related to that question I'll post it here for those interested.

[nomad soul]

[Jandoraa]

[Deats]

You must be careful on this forum as there is good information AND bad information. Sometimes it is hard to distinguish between the two. And just because someone has a lot of posts doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

I have never heard of a person being deported from China for not having a degree. I personally knew first hand many many people teaching in China without a degree. The university I worked at hired two people without a degree. Plenty of people I knew worked in kindergartens and primary schools without degrees.

The logic that if your employer fakes you a degree etc to get you a work permit then you will end up in jail and the employer won't is utter nonsense. Keep a record of all your emails and then you can prove exactly what you did and didn't send them. You can prove you never faked anything but always keep hold of all your correspondence. People on here love scaremongering and giving worst possible case scenarios that never even happen.

It's surprising how many people currently not even living in China seem to somehow have a better understanding of the Chinese law than Chinese companies who are hiring people without degrees and having no problem in doing so. Whilst you should not blindly trust any company, you should also not blindly trust the word of someone on an internet forum. I have been told by people on davesesl how certain things are impossible, then found out that they are in fact totally possible. This has happened to me several times.

Quite a few people on the China forum or in general posts about China have opinions about certain issues regarding living and working in China and they have never even worked there themselves! So beware, just because someone seems knowledgeable about a subject doesn't necessarily make them so.

[spiral78]

Oh, Jandoraa should totally take the chance and relocate her family to China, because Deats knows people who have taught there without a degree and they didn't get deported

Of course!

[nomad soul]

[Deats]

Heilongjiang BaYi University

Joy School Daqing

Kid Castle Daqing

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/index.cgi?read=36513

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/index.cgi?read=36473

I can't be bothered to trawl through more posts than 1 days worth, but bang there are 2 places hiring with no degree and issuing work visas.

Seriously, it's not hard to find.

You have no knowledge of deportations. Just a friend of a friend whose brother's dog was mates with a cat whose owner knew this guy... must be true then.

Maybe people should reserve their comments for things they KNOW to be true, rather than hearsay. Then the forum will be more useful to readers wanting accurate information.

[jimpellow]

"I'd love to teach English in China, but I think it may be time for me to focus on Columbia. My partner wants to go to Medellin, so that's an obvious choice. We're going to Spain this September for six weeks, and as it looks like China is not going to pan out for me, we will head down to Mexico in the new year as we usually do. It sounds like Mexico is a massive hassle when it comes to getting a working visa, so I won't be working there."

Jandoraa, I am getting off topic but I wanted to comment. I do not think China is worth it these days either for the visa hassles and expense for a wage average that has generally stagnated the last several years but has been reduced by taxes and eroded by inflation.

I live in Mexico now. I would never teach here as the wages are terrible. Visa is supposedly a bit tough, but still seems easier and less expensive than China these days. You would be best to teach online from here. Of course then the issue becomes the Internet is best in Mexico in the north, which is where the violence mostly is. I have been living in the Yucatan which is very safe, but the Internet here made me have to quit my online teaching job. Of course, to live here as a gringo is very easy in terms of easy to renew 6 month tourist visas.

I visited Medellin a month back and loved it as it is on my radar for my next move after I go home to the States soon for a month. It would be hard to get a job teaching in Medellin as the competition is intense, and the wages low. There is opportunity, however, as few Paisis speak good English and the city is in the early stages of a business hub and tourism boom. The advantage to Medellin for teaching online is that fast stable Internet can be acquired at reasonable prices.

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

[Angel.Ro]

For those saying they've never seen someone get deported from China for not having a degree, wasn't there a big case in the Chinese news about a bunch of FTs being deported for working illegally at Disney English?

[ymmv]

[Deats]

From my understanding of the Disney English teachers, they did not obtain the necessary work permit. So they were knowingly working illegally. It's their own fault.

It is very different to come into China on a tourist visa to work than to enter China with a legal Z visa. One is illegal, one is not.

Recruiters are the biggest liars and most people who get screwed do so because their recruiter cons them into working on a tourist visa. They get fined and deported because they have broken Chinese immigration laws.

"we expect you to have a bachelors degree"

Hmm, well expecting and it being the law are two very different things. I expect my students to turn up on time for class, but I won't throw them in jail if they don't