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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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 Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| not work for the worst employers |
In my view, very few of them do not fit into that category. I see the employers and the workers more or less matching up with each other. Employers COULD see the long term benefit of hiring better teachers and paying a livable wage, but they are too shortsighted, that is not their culture. Employees could see the reality of the workplace and refuse to participate, and some do, but employers are happy to substitute economic refugees from anywhere and everywhere who will accept whatever they can get. I do not see it getting better anytime soon. For folks who are really good at this work (and also look good), this can still work out. It is possible that in time the market will work and poorly run centers will shake out, but the way things go here generally does not give me too much confidence in that. |
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half moon
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| skarper wrote: |
| If we allow them to drive wages down to a level where we cannot save that much it will be a sad day for all of us. |
When this day comes, and it likely will, that is when we leave.
There is no discussion, debate, or pontification.
We leave.
Nothing stays the same, including wages in EFL. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| Newsflash for those asleep during the last 30years of neo-liberal capitalist tyranny - THE MARKET DOES NOT WORK! Never has and never will. Just cos the Soviet union collapsed does not mean capitalism works. But maybe not the forum for this train of thought! |
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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| neo-liberal capitalist tyranny...maybe not the forum for this train of thought! |
I would respectfully agree. Go to any of the major online newspapers that have forums and you can get all of this you want, and then some. |
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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:26 am Post subject: |
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With respect to wages, they are already at that point in Thailand, yet a lot of guys stay for "other reasons". Lots of folks are here also for similar reasons. While many people may come over here thinking this is going to be a financial plus, I suspect most of those are disappointed. However, that does not mean they will all leave. And, for every one who leaves, there is always someone to take his place.
The best situation is to have incomes to support this. In that case, you can hope to pay your expenses off your income here, if you don't, you are still okay. Teaching English here strictly for financial reasons is usually not the best profile. For those with other incomes, it can be a great financial decision though, as costs are low and you do not have to blow your western incomes, as you might have to living back home. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| skarper wrote: |
| Newsflash for those asleep during the last 30years of neo-liberal capitalist tyranny - THE MARKET DOES NOT WORK! Never has and never will. Just cos the Soviet union collapsed does not mean capitalism works. But maybe not the forum for this train of thought! |
Hmmm.....So the free market never works and "never will"." Maybe someone should inform the South Koreans, the Americans, the Singaporeans, the British, the Germans, the Australians, the Japanese, the Taiwanese, the Canadians etc., etc. In other words, every successful and prosperous national economy on the face of the planet. Indeed, off the top of your head, can you think of any developing country that has become developed, and with its citizens enjoying a First World living standard, without embracing the free market? I can't. Sure, many developed countries have dabbled in socialist policies, but that occurred only after they became wealthy. Besides, how long this can be sustained for is a different matter. In short, the 'track record' of market economies versus the performance of more centrally planned economies is crystal clear and the only times, as far as I can see, where countries have been able to free themselves from grinding poverty is when they have allowed market forces to work.
In regards, to the "last 30years of neo-liberal capitalist tyranny", well, the markets invariably haven't been allowed to function in many previously successful economies due to state meddling. Indeed, in many places, this has been going on for a lot longer than 30 years with the imposition of high taxation, tariffs, middle-class welfare, subsidies, bailouts, corporate cronyism etc. You can call these things whatever you like, but they certainly do not form part of a free-market capitalist system. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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This is really not the place to get into this so I won't add anything to my comment above.
MIS is often correct and is again on this. Let's just agree to differ. |
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ajc19810
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Half Moon,
Every now and then somebody posts a very relevant, real and helpful post.
Those setup costs when you leave Vietnam are always very large and are a huge determining factor of when expats return home. I also believe, for the reasons you outlined that is why so many expats don't go home.
We often discuss savings and earnings on this forum, but the money we make in Vietnam is minimal when we consider the costs of our lives in our home countries. The basic reestablishing of ourselves in our home countries can wipe out 1 - 2 maybe even 3 years savings in Vietnam, especially if there is a family in toe, which was my case. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| ajc19810 wrote: |
We often discuss savings and earnings on this forum, but the money we make in Vietnam is minimal when we consider the costs of our lives in our home countries. The basic reestablishing of ourselves in our home countries can wipe out 1 - 2 maybe even 3 years savings in Vietnam, especially if there is a family in toe, which was my case. |
Very true. However, many people don't find it easy to save much in the West either. |
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half moon
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| ajc19810 wrote: |
Thank you Half Moon,
Every now and then somebody posts a very relevant, real and helpful post.
Those setup costs when you leave Vietnam are always very large and are a huge determining factor of when expats return home. I also believe, for the reasons you outlined that is why so many expats don't go home. |
I agree with you on both points.
EFL is not a so-called career unless someone goes the MA or Delta route. He/she should probably go to the Middle East as well.
| Quote: |
| We often discuss savings and earnings on this forum, but the money we make in Vietnam is minimal when we consider the costs of our lives in our home countries. The basic reestablishing of ourselves in our home countries can wipe out 1 - 2 maybe even 3 years savings in Vietnam, especially if there is a family in toe, which was my case. |
Beware of an EFL teacher that says they "make money."
More important than how much money one "makes" is how much they are saving, and where they are investing it.
If someone is committed to staying overseas for many decades and they do not ever want to return to their Western Country, they could do somethings and I think that includes getting married to a local. That can help a foreigner financially or it could hurt a foreigner financially. |
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namdak
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 620
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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in my experience, beware of VPBOX Hanoi rep who calls himself
Nguyen Dang Hoang (Mr)
Vietnam Education Development Joint Stock Company
VPBOX, Phonics - Learning Box UK Vietnam Representative
A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME...
wants to interview on Skype, sets a time, first time said internet connection problems...which I understand in Vietnam....
then sets another time, Skype shows him online but totally ignores the appointed time/call...and does not respond to nudges by SKype message or email.... |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Well surely that's a pretty obvious red light then. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| half moon wrote: |
I agree with you on both points.
EFL is not a so-called career unless someone goes the MA or Delta route. He/she should probably go to the Middle East as well.
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Yes, if you want to make a career out of teaching English you should have a degree in it. Duh. Can you name a career where this is not true?
No, you don't have to go to the Middle East. There's plenty of options for someone who wants to make a career out of ESL all over the world. If you're only going to teach, then the Middle East is currently the place to go which pays the most, but most of us who have our degrees in ESL don't want to teach our whole lives.
Most people who make a career out of ESL only teach for 5 years. After that they move on to more managerial roles which include teacher training and course design. Longer term, you move on to positions such as Director of Studies, Branch Managers, or even opening your own schools.
The pay for these positions does vary from city to city or country to country, but they are generally much better than your basic teaching salary. Now that I've been doing ESL for several years, most of my friends are people in these positions instead of your fresh off the plane teachers. Many of them are married to locals and support their families quite "easily" at least from outward appearances. |
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