Job Discussion Forums

[fchris171]

Hi,

I have a little tax/insurance problem with my school and would like to know what information I would need to look into this myself. Also, where in beijing would I go to do this?

I'll be returning to the UK next year and i'll have to fill in a self assessment tax return. My school gives me a very simple, stamped, print out each month but i think i'll need something a lot more official. It simply states my income, tax and passport number on an A4 piece of paper.

[Deats]

Why would you fill in tax return forms in the UK?

1) You don't live there, so you don't pay tax
2) You have no right to use NHS etc if you return on holiday as you a) don't live there so b) don't pay tax
3) You have no right to study at uni any more, you pay international fees.
4) You can't open a UK bank account any more
5) You can't renew your driver's license

etc etc etc.

After living outside the UK for a year, you lose all rights to UK residency. It takes 3 years living back in the UK to regain these rights. On the other hand, if you live in the EU or you are an asylum seeker, you qualify for UK residency immediately. This is why I will probably never move back to the UK... it's a joke.

Make sure you don't pay them something you don't have to.

[fchris171]

What crazy stuff have you been reading to write all that?

I don't mean to be rude but there's so much there that I know to be factually incorrect I really can't be bothered to go into it.

Granted, I mistakenly wrote 'tax return' instead of just 'self assessment'.

When anyone returns the uk the inland revenue will wish to know what they have been earning abroad. Depending on the duration you have been away and double tax agreements you may or may not pay tax. Either way, whatever you do earn will be factored into your non taxable allowance for that financial year.

[Dedicated]

I have to agree with fchris 171.

Most of Deats' post is totally erroneous and misleading.

[Deats]

When I returned to England and asked to open a bank account I was told I couldn't because I am living abroad.

When I spoke to universities about doing an MA I was told I'd have to pay international fees as I have lived outside the country and only qualify once I have been 'home' for 3 years.

When I returned on holiday I could no longer use NHS dentist etc as I am no longer living there permanently.

Also, my driver's license has expired and you can't renew it whilst living abroad.

I KNOW these things to be 100% accurate.

If I move back to the UK permanently, then I can get a driver's license, use the NHS again and get a bank account. However the foreign university fees apply for 3 years.

Obviously if you have lived abroad for less than a year or you are moving back to the UK permanently things are different (as I have written above)

EDIT:

Also, when I wrote "It takes 3 years living back in the UK to regain these rights." I meant the rights you have as a resident (i.e. home study fees).

I would be very interested as to what you think is wrong with my post.

[fchris171]

The big thing that separates the info over your two posts is someone's residence status as there are a number of different categories that someone can fall under with regards to different matters.

Duration abroad, purpose abroad, initial and future intentions, NI contributions, links to the UK are all factors when deciding this. I've really done my homework on it

I don't doubt that the things in your second post happened to you under your personal circumstances but for many people they will be different, myself included.

Sorry if i sound offensive here, i don't mean to

[Deats]

I have no doubt that there are different circumstances.

I'm actually interested to read different experiences as they can prove useful.

I would think the easier thing to get around would certainly be banking. But from speaking to the DVLA they say you can't renew if you are not resident in the country. However, you can lie. Same goes with uni - and I did a fair bit of research on that.

Like you say, how you qualify as 'resident' can be dependent on quite a few things. However, most EFL teachers (I would guess) will probably have some problems whilst living abroad (i.e driver's license, unable to get a credit ccard etc) that they didn't envisage and also some issues on returning to live in the UK (I have several friends who encountered problems).

Are you moving back permanently btw, or just to visit?

Also, just in my personal experience (i.e my friends), I don't know anyone who has paid UK taxes or NI whilst teaching EFL.

[fchris171]

Most countries have a double taxation agreement with the UK (including china) so it's unlikely that people here would pay taxes when they went back, as long as they can prove that they were actually paying taxes in china, hence why I need that tax slip.

Yeh I'm moving back permanently, looking into doing a PGCE. I haven't actually been away that long and i still have a lot of links there. Home, Accounts, GP etc

With regards to the residence status, read up about the difference between ordinary resident, uk resident and non resident

[Dedicated]

Good luck, fchris71, with the PGCE.

You have clearly researched the UK minefield of resident, non-resident and domiciled and non-domiciled status and been sensible to maintain clear links. I had such a battle with the UK tax department over money earned overseas which I had declared on my self assessment tax return.

I eventually won the battle.

[fchris171]

Hi Dedicated,

What documents did you have to give them to prove your earnings and taxes paid?

[Dedicated]

I had to produce just about everything....original contracts, monthly salary slips, bank transfer slips, birth certificate - I'm not UK born - previous P45 and P60 slips, UK NHS number etc etc.

Just hang on to everything you have which will need to be translated into English. I was in various countries, not only China, including the Middle East and the Gulf and eventually had to employ a tax lawyer to get my money back. In comparison, I think your case is simple.

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

Thank god you didn't work for some of the universities i worked for. We received absolutely NO record of pay.

[Deats]

Moving back to England is a minefield once you have been away for any period of time (I'm approaching 10 years).

Like OhBudPowellWhereArtThou says, it's not so simple to keep all your records when you are never given those records to start with! Working in China and Russia a lot of business is done under the table. Especially private students. How do you explain you have saved £100,000 when you are officially paid £600 a month!?

The thought of having to employ a lawyer just so I can move home (not even to mention the legal hassles of taking a spouse) doesn't seem worth it.

Also, a lot of information can be subjective as to what status you qualify for.

England is a bureaucratic nightmare nowadays.

[Dedicated]

I paid 400 pounds to a lawyer - well worth it to get proper advice, then it is not a bureaucratic nightmare at all.

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

I'm an American, so this is all foreign to me. Is a Brit's citizenship suspended after a long time away from England? In the U.S., one retains residency as an American no matter how long he has been away (but hasn't renounced his citizenship--- as many have done recently), and he retains his state residency as long as he has an address to call home.

Are your regulations the result of the incredibly heterogeneous nature of your population?

I don't intend to derail the thread, but I think it might help us Yanks understand the discussion a little better.

Thanks,

BP