Job Discussion Forums

[Mdawg45]

When my boyfriend started getting frustrated with the recruiting process to be and ESL teacher in China, I started to do some digging into this organization. I was against it from the beginning but that’s a whole other story. If he’s going to do this, let’s make sure all the T’s are crossed and I’s dotted.
First, what are the requirements to teach there?
• 1+ year teaching experience, preferably in EFL or ESL
• Bachelor's degree
• TEFL certificate (CELTA or equivalent preferred)
• Native English speaker
• Passport issued by an English-speaking country
• Aged 24 to 55 (due to China working visa requirements)
• No criminal record

Now my boyfriend is taking a break from college, and does not have a BA or AA. He is TEFL certified and has worked with kids for many years through sports, but not so much in a classroom setting.

I reached out to a law firm in China that has blog posts on this subject:

What I said:
“Hello,
I was wondering if a Bachelor's degree is required to obtain a Z-visa to work in China teaching kids English. If one has a TEFL certification and experience working with kids, is a Bachelor's degree still required for the Z-visa? What is the likelihood of a Z-visa being approved without a degree?
Thank you for your time.”
His Response:
“Essentially, yes you will need a Bachelor’s Degree in order to obtain a working permit, as well as proof of two years’ work experience in a similar industry. Further for teaching at universities/schools/private teaching companies you would also be required to show a Foreign Experts License. This is essentially a teaching qualification but basically a TOEFL. Some less reputable English teaching companies will say that they can get you a visa anyway but often through illegal methods. With your toefl and English teaching experience it is difficult to say whether they will allow you to get a Z visa but experience has taught me that they more than likely won’t.”
This got me wondering, due to the high number of horror stories of teaching over there. He recommended to reach out to former employees.
Let me say, they’ve been hard to find that have not had bad experiences or nothing shady has been done.


I searched the school, First Leap. They have a website, it looks ok though not updated often just like their facebook page. There have been no responses to my emails or fb posts.
Next I looked at what was said online about them. There is a big story on reddit. The username, not that hot, but I actually got a response,:
“The paperwork thats being done for your boyfriends Z-Visa is illegal paperwork. In China, anything can be done with a bit of bribery. Our experience was with a messy ending. We gave our notice, and first leap refused to cooperate with it. This is because they didnt like that we were cutting the contract early. Finally after much battle, they agreed to provide us the papers needed to transfer our Visas over to another company, but last minute they recanted this decision. We're talking, within days of our temp visas expiring. We had to borrow 2000$ CAD to purchase last minute flights or we would be stuck in China with an expired visa and no money. No money, because our last pay they shaved off 1400$ CAD (thats like 8000rmb) for exit fees - something our contract stated we wouldnt have because we followed its terms to letter.
We spoke with a lawyer, and they gave us a lot of insight. First Leap wouldnt have provided the papers because they were forged papers. First leap partners with ODEN because in China, ESL companies can only have so many foreign teachers before paying fees, so to get around that they split into multiple companies. Who knows who youre working for.
China is a crappy country to live in regardless, its 3rd world in most cases. He's going to be OK as long as he takes whatever crap they give him with a smile. If he tries to fight them, he's out of his league. Be sure to have enough money available to get him out of there in a pinch. We had some close calls with local Chinese people, were blackmailed, watched a dog get brutally stomped on, have seen two dead people on the street (.... I can stress how alarming both occasions were), my girlfriend watched a woman get run over (likely dead, she was twitching) and noone came to help her (we were advised not to go to any injured persons aid otherwise we could be arrested or accused), blackmailed for 500rmb after a friends dog was stolen, oh god what else... Im trying to think of these on the spot. Our teaching center was raided in Beijing and 4 teachers that First Leap had screwed over were held for a week in a chinese holding cell, without being allowed to call anyone. Of those 4, 3 had legal Z visas but First Leap had them working in Beijing when they were supposed to work in Nanjing. One was working illegally under a tourist visa. Of these 4, 3 of them left the company immediately (even tho First leap promised that they had bribed the police so it wouldnt happen again!).
He is not protected, however if he has 2k to pull himself out if anything goes wrong, then I would say he will be OK. I personally will never step foot in China, or work for an ESL company without a degree. This was a horrible experience.”
Whoa, (minus the skewed view of China) Red Flags like no other.
I also looked for people that had started blogs, they had one to two posts then all went dead. I also reached out to people on facebook. I got one response, and because of her being pregnant she never got the visa, though worked for them for a few months and had to show the recruiting company her contract to get the correct pay. Also told me a story of a teacher getting fired for developing an ulcer and missing work.
I also found nothing about the recruiting company except people asking questions about it. Finally I found one person and reached out to them and they said:
“Oden is a recruiting group that fleeces employees. They are not a teachers union by any means. If working in China is what is desired, it should be done elsewhere.”
You see, though the recruiter says they are with Oden, the papers my boyfriend is sending in goes to a completely different company called, Good Teacher’s Union. I’ve reached out via email and fb to the people and have yet to hear from them. I’ve asked for their SAIC and EIN. Nothing has been sent back, but my boyfriend is definitely getting emails back so I had him ask (mind you he’s still thinking there is no red flags).
I actually got in contact with someone at the school who will not divulge their supposed two full time employed visa specialists emails nor what recruiting companies they use unless I sign a contract with them. When I asked about teaching with no degree, he said no problem. When I said I had been in contact with a lawyer who said it was required, his response was “Lawyers may know the law, they don’t always deal with the day to day practice and visa policies sometimes change daily.”
Huh interesting. Now I do have a partial list of supposed current employees and where they are supposed to be teaching. I’ll be reaching out to them.
Does anyone have advice to what to do next or who to reach out to? Apparently this is not enough red flags for the boyfriend as the company has been professional and nice. Oh, he got into this because he had a friend that worked there (though that friend had a fake degree) and recommended it.

[vikeologist]

Get a new boyfriend? You didn't make the thread a poll, so I'm not sure if that was one of the options.

Your boyfriend can't work in China legally. It's not a good idea to work here illegally because of the risk of prison.

http://lawandborder.com/faq-new-china-visa-law/

Show your boyfriend the parts about unauthorized employment.

perhaps if you point out that the relevant law actually specifies jail time for working illegally, that might be a big enough red flag for him.

I can't stress enough how incredibly stupid working for this company would be. I think it would be pretty reckless to do this because he hadn't done adequate research into China. but to do this after you've found out the relevant information would be unbelievably misguided.

Not all laws in China are taken completely seriously by the Police, but the visa one is. This is the current law. It's fairly new, a couple of years old, and much harsher than the old one, because the government are serious about this issue.

[Mdawg45]

Sorry new to this forum thing and needed a place to vent/tell the story and see if anyone has advice. Not sure how this poll thing works.

Yea borderline time to get a new boyfriend. He thinks this will help him get a job back here in the states once he comes back and still not have to go to college.

The guy at the school is hilarious to mess with but won't respond now because I need to sign the contract for any info. I had the boyfriend ask for the SAIC and they sent some other form that supposedly says First Leap can hire foreigners but I can't read it. I also said he should ask for a copy of the signed contract before he goes and all they sent was a picture of the last page of his contract with his signature and passport number on it and a red star stamp. No school representative signed it, nor are they sending anything via mail to him.
He is being extremely stupid.
The Embassy in China recommended writing to the Entry/Exit Admin in Beijing. But I'm not sure what to say without him getting into trouble (though at this point he probably should) or if anyone will read it.

[nomad soul]