Job Discussion Forums

[portnoy58]

I'm 57 years old and fully qualified, NES - bachelors, pgce(i), TESOL and eight years of verifiable experience from one school in Thailand with a previous career in public sector in UK. Specialism in primary mathematics. How are my prospects looking in China?

[Shanghai Noon]

Realistically, not very good. 55 is the maximum age to enter the workforce. You can hang on until 60 once you're in. There is a way around it, but you need to find a school that really needs you.

[Aristede]

[roadwalker]

Academic year runs about September 1 to July something. With good qualifications, there may be something out there for you this term, but there may be a reason for the vacancy, too. Language schools hire year round. It does seem that the 60 year old cutoff is being enforced strictly, at least in the more popular areas. So if you are interested, you should start contacting schools now.

Spring term is usually late February but schools like to get the visa work done before Chinese New Year, so if that is a possibility, make contact by early November.

[jimpellow]

I think your prospects are outstanding! If you are interested in teaching mathematics in a high school prep program. There is a very large and unfilled demand for these positions.

Personally, I have been out of China for three years now so can't comment on the age discrimination matter too directly. You sort of hear it both ways, but I met a fair amount of 55 plus teachers during my five years there.

Generally, all the jurisdictions which have a limit have written in exceptions. A 59 year old with minimal qualifications and would most likely be homeless in his home country would most likely not pass muster unless the school had some good connections. A sane and well experienced teacher with great credentials and with a specialization that is high demand will very likely be granted the exception.

Apparently China is looking at raising the retirement age in China. It was set so low so older workers would have to leave the workforce for younger ones. Now China is quickly having the opposite problem, too few younger workers to support the older ones. By keeping the older workers in the workforce longer, they will not be drawing on retirement programs. The Chinese are respecting of age though not to the extent Thais are. The age limit issue really has been about the crazy Chinese demographic structure that Beijing has tried to address. I don't think the changes will affect you in your timeframe, but just to give you a framework.

If you decide to go the mathematics route only settle for a high salary and paid time off during the summer and breaks. Don't let some recruiter and headmaster collude to skim away what the market will bear for your services. You might want to try Network ESL in Hong Kong. They do not skim the teacher's salary and specialize in those kind of positions. They can also most likely get your resume in front of international schools if that is where you want to go. International here meaning the real deal ones, not the Chinese style where the only thing international is the token foreign teacher.

[JamesD]

Got you beat, I'm 58. Although I did come in at 40.
Have you looked at international schools? A little late for September start but never hurts to ask about spring term. I would think your qualifications would get you a better than average package.

Direct answer, probably difficult in tier 1 cities but many opportunities in tier 2 or 3.

[portnoy58]

Thanks for your posts. Very helpful and informative.

[Non Sequitur]

[talentedcrayon]

I met a 37 year old medical school student at the hospital I was working at in Vancouver. He told me: "I don't think it's ever too late to do something that you love."

Obviously, we've all heard that before. But he was really living it out. Admirable.

If you really want to do the ESL in China thing, 57 isn't too old. Just apply for jobs and see what happens.

[Aristede]

[gonzo84]

I wish I never left Thailand, it was the best time of my life. Why are you leaving?

[portnoy58]

I have become deeply disillusioned by the system here in Thailand and reckon that apart from a handful of truly elite schools in Bangkok, it sucks, lacks integrity and fails the students, the parents and the wider society because, ironically, everyone passes!

It's not about location either. I couldn't be happier with my current location in terms of quality of life and I doubt if I will ever match that quality again. However I have two young kids who need an education; they're half-British, half-Filipino. There's nothing for them here in Thailand and little more in the Philippines. So a major factor is work that comes with tuition for kids. My wife is also a highly qualified and experienced teacher and has flawless English as good as a NES.

Bearing these factors in mind I am looking at the international school sector and China is one of many options. The replies and perspectives offered here have been really helpful and for that I am grateful. Thanks.

[nomad soul]

[jimpellow]

The more you get into the details, the more I think you should pass on China.

The main reasons you indicate for wanting to leave Thailand are going to hold true for China too. Plus you have to consider if you want your children to be raised in such a polluting environment for both mind and body.

You will also have the visa issue to consider. It can be enough for one person in terms of time and expense to get a working visa these days. But if you bring the wife and kids you will have to go through even more hoops. I would assume they all have British citizenship, but the fact you lived in Thailand and your wife was born in the Philippines is going to cause headaches, and then for the kids too.

Your wife is very likely going to be very limited in opportunities even if she holds British citizenship and she was the personal English teacher of the King of Thailand. She has the "dark face" working against her, and Chinese have a mindset of seeing Filipinos as their inferior servants. Pinoys in China have two purposes in Chinese eyes, to play rock music at Western bars and fill the lowest of the teaching positions. I am of the opinion she will never be given a fair shake by any employer.

I did the Philippines too for a year and a half. Best for the beaches and the ladies, but a terrible place to make a decent living. Even remote employment is near impossible with the overpriced Internet rarely working correctly - save Manilla which I found to be a true hellhole.

I have done Saudi so the UAE idea posted above sounds better. There were definitely mature teachers when I worked in Saudi, though I heard the real money making jobs at companies like ARAMCO cut off at 50 (for joining). I oddly enjoyed the lifestyle and would have stayed longer if I was married and the students weren't so incredibly lazy and hopeless. For a family like yours, it may be a good fit for an extended stint.

I think you may be like I became and have grown tired of the Asian mentality, although you may not completely realize it. I did Mexico after the Philippines and am now in Colombia and find dealing with the locals on a daily basis so much more enjoyable and less frustrating than during my time in Asia. If you really do enjoy Thailand but have grown tired of the workplace there, why not look for online employment and/or think about setting something up online?

Anyways, as you probably know, there are outfits that recruit worldwide for teachers with you and your wife's credentials. If you heaven't already, I would make contact with them. Best of luck!

[portnoy58]

Thanks, nomadsoul and jimpellow, very helpful posts indeed. It's early days yet more exploratory than anything at this stage but these posts help me to be clearer in where and what I should be looking for.