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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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 Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I see your point but I know of them, and sure some other people do too.
A few that come to mind off the top of my head.
Case where the FAO did not like foreigners and failed to submit the paperwork. Pretty screwed up, huh? When the teachers were later detained the school did nothing to assist them.
Case where the local authorities decided that type 2 diabetes was reason to deny an applicant a permit after the in country physical.
Case where the local cog did not like Americans and refused to to issue a residence permit.
Case where the local PSB decided that there were too many foreigners doing all the teaching as local Chinese were available who spoke English. Hahaha
You could add in being considered a "public nuisance" as a popular reason too. Don't know any cases of that personally, but it has happened. |
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Brunouno
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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| Double_Dragon wrote: |
Do we really need two years' experience in order to get a Z visa? In which areas is it possible to get a Z visa without two years post degree experience?
Edit: Emphasised post |
The 2 years post-grad experience was an issue for me with my current job. My boss didn't initially notice on my degree that I'd only graduated last year. Once he noticed this, I had to go to Nanjing instead of Beijing to get processed. A lot of guys on this forum will tell you to steer clear from such scenarios. but it's a very common occurrence for FT's here.
My school is affiliated with other schools in Nanjing, so you cannot always just get processed in other cities to solve the problem. If I were in your shoes, I would just be more concerned about finding a decent employer and discussing the issue during the interview process. |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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| Brunouno wrote: |
| Double_Dragon wrote: |
Do we really need two years' experience in order to get a Z visa? In which areas is it possible to get a Z visa without two years post degree experience?
Edit: Emphasised post |
The 2 years post-grad experience was an issue for me with my current job. My boss didn't initially notice on my degree that I'd only graduated last year. Once he noticed this, I had to go to Nanjing instead of Beijing to get processed. A lot of guys on this forum will tell you to steer clear from such scenarios. but it's a very common occurrence for FT's here.
My school is affiliated with other schools in Nanjing, so you cannot always just get processed in other cities to solve the problem. If I were in your shoes, I would just be more concerned about finding a decent employer and discussing the issue during the interview process. |
The point about the 2 years being post graduate here is interesting for the OPs situation. I had forgotten all about this when I gave my advice. I do remember they had put having the minimum age of 24 as an initial 2013- 2014 requirement figuring 3-4 + 2 equals 24. And come to think about I used to work with an excellent teacher who went back home to finish his degree and then wanted to go to teach in Tianjin, past the changes, and was denied as the experience was not post. Sort of funny how they didn't question how he was teaching without a degree before. Rather stupid to me that relevant experience must be post, if this is how it is still enforced.
Not to be harsh on you personally, but your situation is exactly what I was warning about. Go to work in China with faith that the employer will get it right. But they screw it up somehow and fix it by scamming the system and now you are working in violation of Chinese law along with the other dice rollers. |
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sonnytron
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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| jimpellow wrote: |
| Brunouno wrote: |
| Double_Dragon wrote: |
Do we really need two years' experience in order to get a Z visa? In which areas is it possible to get a Z visa without two years post degree experience?
Edit: Emphasised post |
The 2 years post-grad experience was an issue for me with my current job. My boss didn't initially notice on my degree that I'd only graduated last year. Once he noticed this, I had to go to Nanjing instead of Beijing to get processed. A lot of guys on this forum will tell you to steer clear from such scenarios. but it's a very common occurrence for FT's here.
My school is affiliated with other schools in Nanjing, so you cannot always just get processed in other cities to solve the problem. If I were in your shoes, I would just be more concerned about finding a decent employer and discussing the issue during the interview process. |
The point about the 2 years being post graduate here is interesting for the OPs situation. I had forgotten all about this when I gave my advice. I do remember they had put having the minimum age of 24 as an initial 2013- 2014 requirement figuring 3-4 + 2 equals 24. And come to think about I used to work with an excellent teacher who went back home to finish his degree and then wanted to go to teach in Tianjin, past the changes, and was denied as the experience was not post. Sort of funny how they didn't question how he was teaching without a degree before. Rather stupid to me that relevant experience must be post, if this is how it is still enforced.
Not to be harsh on you personally, but your situation is exactly what I was warning about. Go to work in China with faith that the employer will get it right. But they screw it up somehow and fix it by scamming the system and now you are working in violation of Chinese law along with the other dice rollers. |
Is this still YMMV in different provinces? My degree is December 2014, but I'm in my late 20's and I've had approximately two~three years of English experience as both a teaching assistant and a language partner/conversation leader at my University. I also have somewhere around 1-3 years of experience just in other work.
My recruiter KNOWS I graduated in December and so does the school hiring me so I'm wondering if there's some local province modification of the requirements being played.
People tell me that different provinces enforce the rules differently depending on the demand, i.e: Beijing, Shanghai enforce it really strictly because they have no shortage of teachers who want to teach there but tier 2 cities are more desperate to hire foreign teachers so they work things out with the FAO to more or less treat the requirements like a "total package" with a minimum passing score like being a little washy on the experience but having TEFL and a degree, clean record and health so being allowed to teach. |
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Brunouno
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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| jimpellow wrote: |
| Brunouno wrote: |
| Double_Dragon wrote: |
Do we really need two years' experience in order to get a Z visa? In which areas is it possible to get a Z visa without two years post degree experience?
Edit: Emphasised post |
The 2 years post-grad experience was an issue for me with my current job. My boss didn't initially notice on my degree that I'd only graduated last year. Once he noticed this, I had to go to Nanjing instead of Beijing to get processed. A lot of guys on this forum will tell you to steer clear from such scenarios. but it's a very common occurrence for FT's here.
My school is affiliated with other schools in Nanjing, so you cannot always just get processed in other cities to solve the problem. If I were in your shoes, I would just be more concerned about finding a decent employer and discussing the issue during the interview process. |
The point about the 2 years being post graduate here is interesting for the OPs situation. I had forgotten all about this when I gave my advice. I do remember they had put having the minimum age of 24 as an initial 2013- 2014 requirement figuring 3-4 + 2 equals 24. And come to think about I used to work with an excellent teacher who went back home to finish his degree and then wanted to go to teach in Tianjin, past the changes, and was denied as the experience was not post. Sort of funny how they didn't question how he was teaching without a degree before. Rather stupid to me that relevant experience must be post, if this is how it is still enforced.
Not to be harsh on you personally, but your situation is exactly what I was warning about. Go to work in China with faith that the employer will get it right. But they screw it up somehow and fix it by scamming the system and now you are working in violation of Chinese law along with the other dice rollers. |
I have a Z visa and a residence permit in my passport. That's all I care about. I'll sleep fine tonight  |
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Double_Dragon
Joined: 12 Mar 2015
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:59 am Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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Last edited by Double_Dragon on Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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| Double_Dragon wrote: |
| Brunouno wrote: |
| jimpellow wrote: |
| Brunouno wrote: |
| Double_Dragon wrote: |
Do we really need two years' experience in order to get a Z visa? In which areas is it possible to get a Z visa without two years post degree experience?
Edit: Emphasised post |
The 2 years post-grad experience was an issue for me with my current job. My boss didn't initially notice on my degree that I'd only graduated last year. Once he noticed this, I had to go to Nanjing instead of Beijing to get processed. A lot of guys on this forum will tell you to steer clear from such scenarios. but it's a very common occurrence for FT's here.
My school is affiliated with other schools in Nanjing, so you cannot always just get processed in other cities to solve the problem. If I were in your shoes, I would just be more concerned about finding a decent employer and discussing the issue during the interview process. |
The point about the 2 years being post graduate here is interesting for the OPs situation. I had forgotten all about this when I gave my advice. I do remember they had put having the minimum age of 24 as an initial 2013- 2014 requirement figuring 3-4 + 2 equals 24. And come to think about I used to work with an excellent teacher who went back home to finish his degree and then wanted to go to teach in Tianjin, past the changes, and was denied as the experience was not post. Sort of funny how they didn't question how he was teaching without a degree before. Rather stupid to me that relevant experience must be post, if this is how it is still enforced.
Not to be harsh on you personally, but your situation is exactly what I was warning about. Go to work in China with faith that the employer will get it right. But they screw it up somehow and fix it by scamming the system and now you are working in violation of Chinese law along with the other dice rollers. |
I have a Z visa and a residence permit in my passport. That's all I care about. I'll sleep fine tonight |
Exactly. Once you have the Z visa, you'd have to do something pretty bad for them to rifle through your documents in order to find a lack of two years post degree experience.
But then, the authorities wouldn't have to rifle through those documents, because you would have already done something pretty bad. They could then simply deport your silly bum back whichever place you fled from. |
Actually Double D, the issue would be if he were caught teaching outside the jurisdiction where he is authorized to work than its the possible hefty fine, detainment, apology letter, deportation and ban Sino special. They don't seem to be looking for this at present so he can sleep fine for now. Some random raid may get him, but probably not.
The Chinese government does go on one occasional mini anti-foreigner tirades and makes a concerted effort in certain jurisdictions to unearth those privileged guests of the PRC who have brought shame on China and the Chinese people with their dishonest and fraudulent actions. No help from the employer in about 99% of such cases. They will pretend they have no idea who the teacher is and why he is teaching there and the authorities will almost always believe them. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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| jimpellow wrote: |
| The Chinese government does go on one occasional mini anti-foreigner tirades and makes a concerted effort in certain jurisdictions to unearth those privileged guests... |
Concerted, huh?
What I'm noting about much of your posting in this thread is a lack of citation supported by a vague legalese (e.g., case in which), or claims; A litany of grievances similar to those of which various entities, eager to "organize" FTs, frequently spam this forum. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with advocacy. Nothing wrong in an opinion sympathetic to criticism or appeals to reform. But I'm posting to assert a difference of opinion to many of the characterizations jimpellow makes of Chinese policy and culture in this thread because they are, in my opinion, ethnocentric and specious.
The requirement is two years experience post academic study; Ignore it a peril.
Which, in a way, is exactly what's been expressed by others, but with explanations of its apparent irrationality/irregular enforcement/etc. |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| jimpellow wrote: |
| The Chinese government does go on one occasional mini anti-foreigner tirades and makes a concerted effort in certain jurisdictions to unearth those privileged guests... |
Concerted, huh?
What I'm noting about much of your posting in this thread is a lack of citation supported by a vague legalese (e.g., case in which), or claims; A litany of grievances similar to those of which various entities, eager to "organize" FTs, frequently spam this forum. Which is fine. There's nothing wrong with advocacy. Nothing wrong in an opinion sympathetic to criticism or appeals to reform. But I'm posting to assert a difference of opinion to many of the characterizations jimpellow makes of Chinese policy and culture in this thread because they are, in my opinion, ethnocentric and specious.
The requirement is two years experience post academic study; Ignore it a peril.
Which, in a way, is exactly what's been expressed by others, but with explanations of its apparent irrationality/irregular enforcement/etc. |
Fair enough. I think if you look through past posts, however, you will see that I do a lot of linking to sources. Particularly in comparison to a poster that espouses to newcomers that all will be ok based on their own personal experience, usually based on the past which rarely can be applied today.
I have a vested interest in these issues to help a business friend which is why I stick around. Some things I miss about China, but much happier here in Medellin.
I certainly have developed a China Bounder attitude towards the PRC, call it ethnocentric and specious if you want. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:04 am Post subject: Re: Two Years' Experience |
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| Thanks for the measured and affable response. I went back and forth about posting what I did because I had noticed your specificity and candor on other threads. Cheers. |
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bennufc
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I was accepted for a job a few months back in Beijing but I lack the two years experience required. I was meant to start two weeks ago but because of this very problem my arrival has been delayed due to the school and University needing to get special dispensation owing to the lack of experience.
I'd emphasise the post earlier that mentioned differences in tier 1 and 2 cities. I'd imagine the rules are much more relaxed in smaller cities. If you want to teach in the big cities however I'd say try to remain patient! |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bennufc wrote: |
I was accepted for a job a few months back in Beijing but I lack the two years experience required. I was meant to start two weeks ago but because of this very problem my arrival has been delayed due to the school and University needing to get special dispensation owing to the lack of experience.
I'd emphasise the post earlier that mentioned differences in tier 1 and 2 cities. I'd imagine the rules are much more relaxed in smaller cities. If you want to teach in the big cities however I'd say try to remain patient! |
bennufc comment is interesting because it somewhat undermines my opinion that the school will have teed up the PSB approval BEFORE going ahead with an offer.
Underlines the desirability of having other offers 'on the go' until you have the Z visa in your passport.
I advise bennufc to make contact with other schools in less strict areas now.
What are you going to do if the school comes back and says 'no can do'. |
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jimpellow
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 913
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
| bennufc wrote: |
I was accepted for a job a few months back in Beijing but I lack the two years experience required. I was meant to start two weeks ago but because of this very problem my arrival has been delayed due to the school and University needing to get special dispensation owing to the lack of experience.
I'd emphasise the post earlier that mentioned differences in tier 1 and 2 cities. I'd imagine the rules are much more relaxed in smaller cities. If you want to teach in the big cities however I'd say try to remain patient! |
bennufc comment is interesting because it somewhat undermines my opinion that the school will have teed up the PSB approval BEFORE going ahead with an offer.
Underlines the desirability of having other offers 'on the go' until you have the Z visa in your passport.
I advise bennufc to make contact with other schools in less strict areas now.
What are you going to do if the school comes back and says 'no can do'. |
I wonder if it is matter if one can tee up the PSB thing for such, or a matter of the school not looking ahead and seeing the land mine and prepping proactively?
I have an opinion that they are going to come back to him at the end of the wait that he will need to take the Beijing TEFL in China. Certainly hope I am wrong and the poster is soon able to munch on tasty insect kebabs at the night market. Please tell us how it goes and best of luck on it. |
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bennufc
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
| bennufc wrote: |
I was accepted for a job a few months back in Beijing but I lack the two years experience required. I was meant to start two weeks ago but because of this very problem my arrival has been delayed due to the school and University needing to get special dispensation owing to the lack of experience.
I'd emphasise the post earlier that mentioned differences in tier 1 and 2 cities. I'd imagine the rules are much more relaxed in smaller cities. If you want to teach in the big cities however I'd say try to remain patient! |
bennufc comment is interesting because it somewhat undermines my opinion that the school will have teed up the PSB approval BEFORE going ahead with an offer.
Underlines the desirability of having other offers 'on the go' until you have the Z visa in your passport.
I advise bennufc to make contact with other schools in less strict areas now.
What are you going to do if the school comes back and says 'no can do'. |
I had other offers but had to turn them down unfortunately as they were due to start at the same time. I'm pretty screwed if I don't get the dispensation! I'm remaining confident though, it seems a reputable organisation (BLCU) so I'm quietly confident, although rather frustrated!
Also, thanks jimpellow for the good luck, and I'll keep updating my progress in this thread! |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Best as well from me.
NS |
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