| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
 Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:12 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| buravirgil wrote: |
| Hod wrote: |
| Do many of your letters to The Times get published? |
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| Is English your first language, Buravirgil? Diction? Pah! |
If either of you chaps have something of substance to ask, by all means...but I've answered what issues I can about this thread.
The OP dismissed my assertion their English reflected a bilingual environment and I didn't pursue it. I appreciate members defending other members, but corrected Hod's assumption that I'd addressed a typo.
The OP, as well, rightly asserted an MA TESOL degree from a handful of institutions in England/Scotland is among those rare examples of post-graduate degrees conferred without a first, or undergraduate, degree.
Outside of that? What about the OP are you addressing? |
It isn't that unusual nowadays for native speakers without BAs to want to get into TEFLing (newsflash: even graduates are doing it rather than flip burgers!), so your "bilingual assertion" must've been based on something else, and it seems disingenuous to say it wasn't accusatory or meant as a put-down. We can all see that the OP's phrasing is a bit clunky in his third paragraph, and that he uses 'with' when he surely meant 'which' in the supplementary clause at the end of his fourth paragraph, but it is simply a waste. of. time, and indeed a barrier to communication, to make a direct or even an indirect issue out of such things. What I find really interesting though is that a non-native speaker writing at this level would likely already have a degree in English, with the only issue then perhaps being that of where they grew up and had their K12 schooling. The fact that the OP didn't mention anything of the sort might be a clue, but what do I know eh? As for universities admitting more and more foreign students to make a bigger buck, yes, we all know about that, but again, it fails to be really relevant if the OP is a native speaker (and I reckon he is. Who wouldn't?).
So I'm not so much defending other members as simply asking that irrelevancies of form over content not become such an issue all. the. time. And it's a bit ironic when the apparent resident maven is hardly a bastion of "best style" himself.
Anyway, I don't have much to add to the OP, as the issue as it pertains to Japan (my main area of visa-related knowledge) has been resolved, and the OP may not be that interested in working anywhere a dart might be thrown at a world map. Plus let's face it, it takes time ferreting out this sort of information, and that's just in the more open and well-regulated countries. People are probably too busy to help compile and check a master list or whatever may or may not have been implicit in the OP's request. I'm assuming he has enough countries to be getting on with for now. 
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| ...and it seems disingenuous to say it wasn't accusatory or meant as a put-down. We can all see that the OP's phrasing is a bit clunky in his third paragraph, and that he uses 'with' when he surely meant 'which' in the supplementary clause at the end of his fourth paragraph |
The which/with miskey would be a typo and it wasn't what I noticed. Nor was it clunkiness and what I asserted wasn't a put down.
| Quote: |
| So I'm not so much defending other members as simply asking that irrelevancies of form over content not become such an issue all. the. time. And it's a bit ironic when the apparent resident maven is hardly a bastion of "best style" himself. |
| Quote: |
| Anyway, I don't have much to add to the OP,... |
True. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
So you just assert and for no particular reason that somebody may be "bilingual"? Why so coy about 'what you noticed'? And what makes you think (given your surely irrelevant question) that you've added that much to the thread?
I think I've got you sussed. So-called form or style over content. Sorry if that sounds harsh. I've been accused of spinning wheels myself.
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| So you just assume for no particular reason that people are "bilingual"? |
I consider these objections a de-rail. The OP brushed aside what may well have been a spurious assertion. More power to them, and cause to realign my discrimination. But to answer you, no. What I noticed has come up with some testing I've tinkered with and involves colloquial usage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| What I noticed has come up with some testing I've tinkered with and involves colloquial usage. |
But your theorizing has no basis if it's failed to predict that the OP is not in fact a non-native speaker. By all means identify non-native usages in clearly non-native texts, but don't use apparently native-speaker texts (well, posts actually, and in an ongoing discussion) in the same way or it's you who runs (has run) the risk of derailing things. Surely that sounds fair? Anyway, it's good (well, "good") to know what motivated you in this particular instance.
This reminds me of when I was getting reacquainted with a fellow karate-ka, from Hong Kong but living in the UK, after I'd been TEFLing a few years. I said something like "Oh you have pretty good English actually!" (kinda poorly phrased eh) and he took a bit of offense as it hadn't been a topic (or to him, now an apparent issue) in our pre-TEFLing post-karate-training pub visits. Needless to say, I felt a bit of an ass, even though I'd only meant it as a compliment (as in "I can now more appreciate thanks to my studying English just how good your English is! How did you learn it so well yadda yadda").
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:15 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Editing "surely" to "apparently" is cause for me to end the discussion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I haven't been back through the OP's other posts so I can't be entirely sure of his situation. I was going to add a joke along the lines of "And now the OP will get back to us and say he's a non-native LOL", but in the meantime (while awaiting the OP to chip in) I'm glad that my use of a hedging device has provided you with a reason to bow out. I was actually adding a bit more than just that though in the edit, and another reason for my changing the word was there were a few too many 'surelys' already, but no matter.
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sudz
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 438
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just to clear it up: I'm Canadian - and not a francophone.
Thanks to those who are actually adding to this discussion.
I hope you guys sort it out. I'm not really interested in defending my (devolving?) use of the language.
Salutations! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
I completely agree, Sudz, and this will be my last post on the matter of your (non-)non-nativeness! 
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sudz wrote: |
| Just to clear it up: I'm Canadian - and not a francophone. |
My query was about an L1, not nationality.
Nomad said it so much better, "Don't count on it being black and white."
Because you're presenting an exceptional circumstance and asking if anyone might know how it will/might/would be handled by any number of government entities for a wide range of positions. I agreed discretion was apt because exception handling (to borrow a programmer's term) is rarely publicized by policy makers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sudz
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 438
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
First language sir. First language.
Let's move on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
