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JohnE3294
Joined: 10 Sep 2015
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:40 am Post subject: Is the career change worth it? |
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Hey everyone, new to the forum. Quick introduction:
Graduated 3 years ago with a degree in Finance, and I've been working in the banking industry since graduation. Although I have a relatively good job by today's standards, I'm becoming a corporate slave. I've heard stories both from reading online and from word-of-mouth, that being an ESL teacher in China can allow you to work like 16-20 hour weeks while still being paid salaries that compare to full time work in the West. Now after reading through these forums, there are also stories of being slaves working 1-9 etc.
So my question is, are these jobs that people claim to be working 16-20 hour weeks actually common? Or is that like an absolute best case scenario? |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Is the career change worth it? |
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| JohnE3294 wrote: |
Hey everyone, new to the forum. Quick introduction:
Graduated 3 years ago with a degree in Finance, and I've been working in the banking industry since graduation. Although I have a relatively good job by today's standards, I'm becoming a corporate slave. I've heard stories both from reading online and from word-of-mouth, that being an ESL teacher in China can allow you to work like 16-20 hour weeks while still being paid salaries that compare to full time work in the West. Now after reading through these forums, there are also stories of being slaves working 1-9 etc.
So my question is, are these jobs that people claim to be working 16-20 hour weeks actually common? Or is that like an absolute best case scenario? |
The hours quoted usually refer to teaching hours, meaning how many 45-50 minute classes per week. Many universities expect those teaching hours and little else in terms of time constraints. However, you will need some time to prepare lessons, especially as a newbie, and whenever you need to teach a new lesson. Many other schools expect more teaching hours and office hours in addition.
I like teaching EFL but it's not for everyone. And you're not likely to make as much money as you would in finance. There are some who make a good living but it's not the rule. And to make anywhere near what you are making now, you'd probably be working you assets off, with preparing lessons, finding private students, part time positions and the like.
Teachers in true international schools with a western curriculum often make a good salary and enjoy the lower cost of living than in the country that licensed them to teach. The typical university salary in China, on the other hand, will allow you to save some money but not too much. None if you can't or won't live frugally. |
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mw182006
Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:00 am Post subject: |
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I work 2-3 days a week, two classes a day. This is not an atypical schedule for an oral English teacher at a public university here (afaik). Do I get paid anywhere close to my old desk job in banking? Hell no, but I'm happy I got out of the grind.
Essentially, you can make a lot or a little teaching ESL in China. It depends on your motivations, qualifications, and/or dumb luck. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Yes and no. Yes you can find work which involves 16-20 hours of work per week but the salary won't be as good as a 'professional' full-time job back in the west. Of course, it also depends on what your idea of a reasonable salary is. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Is the career change worth it? |
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| roadwalker wrote: |
I like teaching EFL but it's not for everyone. And you're not likely to make as much money as you would in finance. There are some who make a good living but it's not the rule. And to make anywhere near what you are making now, you'd probably be working you assets off, with preparing lessons, finding private students, part time positions and the like.
Teachers in true international schools with a western curriculum often make a good salary and enjoy the lower cost of living than in the country that licensed them to teach. The typical university salary in China, on the other hand, will allow you to save some money but not too much. None if you can't or won't live frugally. |
Agree that teaching EFL is not for everyone. However, if you are determined and work smart, it is possible to make very good money. This is dependent of course on a few factors such as location and the local demand for EF teachers. And it should be noted that you won't be able to make a decent income from the outset. You will have to do the legwork and build up your experience, connections and skill set first (this stage can take years). |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| I have no idea what salaries are like in your neck of the woods and can't give you a lot of info without knowing that. The 16-20 hour/week jobs do not make that much imho, but maybe your opinion would be different. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Is the career change worth it? |
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| JohnE3294 wrote: |
Hey everyone, new to the forum. Quick introduction:
Graduated 3 years ago with a degree in Finance, and I've been working in the banking industry since graduation. Although I have a relatively good job by today's standards, I'm becoming a corporate slave. I've heard stories both from reading online and from word-of-mouth, that being an ESL teacher in China can allow you to work like 16-20 hour weeks while still being paid salaries that compare to full time work in the West. Now after reading through these forums, there are also stories of being slaves working 1-9 etc. |
Calm down a bit, John. Your references to "slavery" here epitomize hyperbole. When you refer to yourself as a "corporate slave", you pretty surely mean a person who has, of his or her own free will and without any kind of coercion (apart from the pressing need of a paycheck), entered into either at-will or contractual employment under specified conditions.
You can do your own research, if necessary, to contrast this with "actual" slavery and forced labor, which remain widespread to this day in Asia, Latin America, Africa and some parts of Europe. For example: being made to work up to twenty hours a day, being physically locked up in the workplace itself or in adjacent locations with severely substandard if not outright inhumane conditions, being beaten for not working hard enough or just at the whim of "employers" or their overseers, or literally having guns put to one's head. A great percentage of these äctual slaves are children who should be in schools and / or playing with kites, dolls and balls. Some of the slavery is sexual in nature and leaves the victims utterly warped and damaged psychologically for life... So yes, compared with what properly constitutes "actual" slavery, I'd say you have a relatively good job, as you describe it ... and you have the stones to call what you go through "slavery"? Get a grip, please. People who work 1-9, 8-5, or even split shifts between 7am and 9pm are not "slaves", they are people who willingly agree to work under specific conditions for an agreed-upon remuneration. See the difference?
You can probably find a University or public school teaching job in China in which you can get by actually working (as opposed to just actual teaching hours / contact time) as little as 25 hours a week and possibly a fair bit less, though as mentioned, if you have never taught before you're going to need to put quite a bit of time into lesson planning and actually figuring out what you're doing in a classroom. (Although TEFL / TESOL certification is not a national standard in China, you would be well advised to take a course with an observed teaching component or at the very least get an online certificate before sauntering into a classroom.)
As others have said, if you live pretty modestly, you can live fairly comfortably here and even put a few yuan in the bank for a rainy day, on a modest University teacher's salary. Having your rent - and sometimes utilities - paid for makes a huge difference just by itself.
But if we convert this:
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| I've heard stories both from reading online and from word-of-mouth, that being an ESL teacher in China can allow you to work like 16-20 hour weeks while still being paid salaries that compare to full time work in the West. |
into a question, I'd say the answer for the vast majority of teachers in China would be "no way"... assuming of course that by "compare to" one means "more or less equal". You might make slightly more money working part-time at a Wal-Mart or McDonald's twenty-five hours per week in the States than you will as a foreign teacher at a Chinese college (assuming just basic salary and not including extra income from "privates", which also add to your working hours). The difference, again, is that your living costs as a teacher in China can be much, much lower. Long story short, a much more "relaxed" lifestyle while living a decent life is definitely achievable, but are part-time teaching salaries in China comparable with full-time salaries in the West? Including "relatively good jobs" in banking, etc? N-o, no. |
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Brunouno
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Keep in mind that teaching 20 hours a week is the equivalent of a full-time job. This is especially true if you'll work at a language centre with many different levels and ages. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Brunouno wrote: |
| Keep in mind that teaching 20 hours a week is the equivalent of a full-time job. This is especially true if you'll work at a language centre with many different levels and ages. |
This does depend on the particular position you are taking up and your experience as a teacher. As noted before, new teachers will spend a lot more time doing lesson preparation, experienced teachers not so much. In language centres a lot of lessons / courses are repeated thus preparation time is also much reduced (after the first round of course). Private tutoring also does not require much preparation if you are experienced. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jmbf wrote: |
| Brunouno wrote: |
| Keep in mind that teaching 20 hours a week is the equivalent of a full-time job. This is especially true if you'll work at a language centre with many different levels and ages. |
This does depend on the particular position you are taking up and your experience as a teacher. As noted before, new teachers will spend a lot more time doing lesson preparation, experienced teachers not so much. In language centres a lot of lessons / courses are repeated thus preparation time is also much reduced (after the first round of course). Private tutoring also does not require much preparation if you are experienced. |
Mercy
Given the benefit of what mysterytrain points out, I'm unconvinced it's genuine. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Is the career change worth it? |
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| mysterytrain wrote: |
| Long story short, a much more "relaxed" lifestyle while living a decent life is definitely achievable, but are part-time teaching salaries in China comparable with full-time salaries in the West? Including "relatively good jobs" in banking, etc? N-o, no. |
In general I think you are correct. However exceptions do exist and I believe that if you set yourself up correctly, it is still possible to have a 'decent' income working just part-time hours. I take the definition of part-time hours to be anything less than 30 hours per week. If I limited myself to less than 30 hours per week I'd still be earning in excess of 50K / month. Is my situation the norm? Unfortunately no. Did I walk into it 'fresh off the boat'? No. But it is achievable with good planning and effort. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| Jmbf wrote: |
| Brunouno wrote: |
| Keep in mind that teaching 20 hours a week is the equivalent of a full-time job. This is especially true if you'll work at a language centre with many different levels and ages. |
This does depend on the particular position you are taking up and your experience as a teacher. As noted before, new teachers will spend a lot more time doing lesson preparation, experienced teachers not so much. In language centres a lot of lessons / courses are repeated thus preparation time is also much reduced (after the first round of course). Private tutoring also does not require much preparation if you are experienced. |
Mercy
Given the benefit of what mysterytrain points out, I'm unconvinced it's genuine. |
Ah... maybe JohnE's just a banker (or _anker) taking the piss? |
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Brunouno
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Jmbf wrote: |
| Brunouno wrote: |
| Keep in mind that teaching 20 hours a week is the equivalent of a full-time job. This is especially true if you'll work at a language centre with many different levels and ages. |
This does depend on the particular position you are taking up and your experience as a teacher. As noted before, new teachers will spend a lot more time doing lesson preparation, experienced teachers not so much. In language centres a lot of lessons / courses are repeated thus preparation time is also much reduced (after the first round of course). Private tutoring also does not require much preparation if you are experienced. |
My experience was in complete contrast. You'd have to be pretty lucky to be working at a language centre where there are several groups using the same books and up to the same pages. At 99 percent of language centres, you're going to receive a huge pile of coursebooks to cater for kids, teenagers and adults with all the different levels. This means a hell of a lot of preparation whether experienced or not  |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Brunouno wrote: |
My experience was in complete contrast. You'd have to be pretty lucky to be working at a language centre where there are several groups using the same books and up to the same pages. At 99 percent of language centres, you're going to receive a huge pile of coursebooks to cater for kids, teenagers and adults with all the different levels. This means a hell of a lot of preparation whether experienced or not |
Fair enough! This just serves to highlight the fact that the education industry is so tremendously varied. What one teacher might experience can be in complete contrast to another. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: |
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50k/month at 30 hours per week? That's almost 400yuan per hour, not counting any time to set up the privates or commuting. If that includes an anchor job for your residence permit that figure sounds awfully unlikely. Unless you are an SAT guru it would be almost impossible to pull off.
SAT tutors can earn 1,000+ per hour but those guys are few and far between and account for a fraction of a percent of English teachers.
Where I teach it's about 35 hours per week or so (one half-day and almost 2 hours for lunch, otherwise 8-5). If you take into the fact that housing is provided I make more than a some teachers in the US on a monthly basis. The thing is that they get retirements and I get nothing (doesn't even count for social security). So the overall compensation of a teacher back in the states is higher but it wouldn't feel that way to most people.
I have no idea what "banking" earns. Could be anywhere from minimum wage to millions. Also a 'comfortable lifestyle' means very different things to different people.
It does feel like being a slave here sometimes too. Forced to go listen to the owner give a 30+ minute speech almost every week (a "meeting"). Kind of degrading.
I've seen jobs occasionally pop up with relatively good salaries (low teens) and low hours but they're rare and never seem to pop up at the right time for me. Seems like around 2/3rds through the term there are always a few really good jobs that pop up looking for an immediate start. |
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