|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
 Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:40 pm Post subject: Is a Masters in TESOL from Turkey Recognized? |
 |
|
Hey Everyone,
It seems pretty clear to me that the best jobs in KSA and other gulf countries require at least an MA in English Literature, EFL, TESOL, ESL, or Applied Linguistics. Online degrees seem out of the picture because universities seem to just throw them out immediately and not even recognize their existence. Therefore I'm looking at ways to get this degree while still living here in Istanbul, Turkey because it's too hard to move back home and study full-time.
Does anybody know if such a degree has to be from the US, Canada, UK, or Australia? Or is possible to get it from a country such as Turkey, a country that does have internationally accredited universities (although that may not matter to Saudi universities)?
I don't want to spend the money and take the time to get such a degree then have it not be recognized by universities to which I'm applying. Anything anyone can offer in terms of knowledge (anecdotes or known policies) for gulf countries would be greatly appreciated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I met Turks teaching English in KSA with Turkish Uni MAs but I am not sure how the Saudis might react to a "Westerner" with such a qualification. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nichtta wrote: |
It seems pretty clear to me that the best jobs in KSA and other gulf countries require at least an MA in English Literature, EFL, TESOL, ESL, or Applied Linguistics. Online degrees seem out of the picture because universities seem to just throw them out immediately and not even recognize their existence. Therefore I'm looking at ways to get this degree while still living here in Istanbul, Turkey because it's too hard to move back home and study full-time.
Does anybody know if such a degree has to be from the US, Canada, UK, or Australia? Or is possible to get it from a country such as Turkey, a country that does have internationally accredited universities (although that may not matter to Saudi universities)? |
I think you mean nationally-accredited Turkish universities. Regardless, there's no black and white answer in terms of the better employers hiring westerners with degrees from non-Anglophone universities now or in a few years. But if you do go with this plan, I suggest you focus on Arabic L1s as the subject of your studies as much as possible, and then be sure to mention it on your cv.
By the way, it's the governments of these countries, rather than employers, that decided to reject degrees with online coursework. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Masters in TESOL from Turkey Recognized? |
|
|
| nichtta wrote: |
I don't want to spend the money and take the time to get such a degree then have it not be recognized by universities to which I'm applying. |
1. One KSA university that advertises often has the following requirements for applicants:
Essential Requirements:
• Male
• Place of Birth: the US, Canada, the UK, Ireland, Australia or New Zealand.
• Native speakers of English
• Graduate of an Anglophone university
I've never seen "Graduate of an Anglophone university" so blatantly stated in other KSA ads, but you can assume that it might be an issue with several KSA employers even if they don't actually STATE it.
2. Notice this particular employer also specifies certain countries as THE PLACE OF BIRTH as a requirement. I've also never seen THAT little tidbit anywhere else....but again, other places may consider it.
Bottom line: If you're going to be in the field AS A LIFE-LONG CAREER (the next 10-20 years), I'd make every effort (even going into debt if necessary) to get a US/Canada/UK MA degree. Otherwise you're always going to be wondering if your Turkish MA will be rejected or not, not only in KSA but world-wide. (Many employers will think you're really a Turkish national who managed to get a US passport - even if your name is "Johnson").
But if you're going to be in the field for just a few (up to 5) more years, then a Turkish MA is better'n nothing. And, probably some KSA employers won't care where the MA is from particularly if you can provide an "anglo-phone" passport. Note that in some places, your SALARY will depend on WHERE you got your degree.......you might still get hired, but it'll be at a lower scale.
Last edited by hash on Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You might take a look at the TEFL MA Fellowship at the American University of Cairo. It is an American accredited degree. When I was going through their program, we had two Fellows who had been teaching in Turkey prior to starting the program. It takes two years. Check out the AUC website. It can take a bit of searching around to find it on the website, but it is a free MA. Applications for next August start is by the end of year I think.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
PS - Assuming you're from the US, there are now several places in the USA that offer MA degrees in TESOL (or similar) after only one year of study. Last time I looked, I found about 10 such institutions - there may be more now.
Yes, it is a sacrifice but if you're in the field for keeps, an "anglophone" MA is nearly essential, especially as time goes on.
Also, and very important: stay away from ONLINE courses or degrees......you're going to run into the same problems as with having a Turkish degree.....you'll never know for sure where, when or why it'll be accepted or not. I can tell you right now that an online MA won't be accepted (almost certainly) in KSA, even if it was obtained at a US university.
Online courses are fine for "brushing up" on a subject or for personal interest or development, but once you start including them as part of an "official" transcript to be submitted to an employer for employment consideration, you'll find that a lot of places simply won't recognize them as valid for their purposes.
VS's suggestion above regarding AUC's MA program is worth considering. You can not only pick up a USA accredited degree, Cairo is a fine introduction to the Arab world if you've never lived in the area - in 2 years, you could even become quite fluent in Cairene Arabic. AUC is accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education. Check out all the data at:
http://new.aucegypt.edu/about/about-auc/accreditation |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
I really appreciate all the helpful information, everyone!
| nomad soul wrote: |
| I think you mean nationally-accredited Turkish universities. |
I said internationally accredited because I know of many examples of students studying in Turkey then completing their degrees (either Masters or PhD) in North America or Europe, i.e., their Bachelors or Masters degrees were recognized and accepted. I've seen this for both Turkish nationals as well as foreigners, who studied here. However, that doesn't matter if KSA's government (thanks for pointing out that its their governments that set these restrictions) or other gulf countries don't recognize it just like how online degrees' acceptance in North America and Europe is irrelevant to KSA.
----------
hash, what you wrote is a big bummer, but I thank you for pointing that out with a clear example. I feel like their restrictions are just getting ridiculous at this point. What does being born in these countries confirm? I have many friends, who were born abroad but came to the US at a young age and speak English as any other native speaker would. It seems that having a PhD in TESOL is very soon going to be the next requirement that comes up, so I need to get in before that happens.
Anyways, I was born and raised in the US with my BA ("unrelated," mind you) from there, too. I also, of course, have US citizenship.
----------
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| You might take a look at the TEFL MA Fellowship at the American University of Cairo. It is an American accredited degree. When I was going through their program, we had two Fellows who had been teaching in Turkey prior to starting the program. |
Wow, definitely just checked that out, considering Egypt is super cheap. As hash wrote, one big pro is that it does give me experience teaching English to native speakers of Arabic plus experience teaching in the Arab world. The only concern I have about it (other than the recent military coup and deteriorating security situation) is the sexual harassment of women on the streets. I don't want to put my wife through that, but we'll talk and see if it's possible to deal with it for two years.
Okay, so I found AUC's TESOL MA, which I'll post here for the benefit of others following this thread or those who may read it in the future:
http://catalog.aucegypt.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=20&poid=3033
Although AUC is $10,206 per semester and isn't free, you're right that there's a TEFL Fellowship with tuition paid for two years plus a monthly stipend:
http://new.aucegypt.edu/admissions/fellowships/tefl
General graduate merit scholarships are also available:
http://new.aucegypt.edu/admissions/fellowships/graduate-merit
All the American Universities (DC, Cairo, Beirut, Sharjah, Paris, Puerto Rico, and Rome) are accredited by the Middle States Commission of Higher Education, which is recognized by the U.S. Secretary of Education:
http://www.msche.org/
Therefore it is an Anglophone university, as in English-speaking (you even need to show English proficiency to sign up for their Arabic program), accredited in an Anglophone country, although it's not located in an Anglophone country.
VS, how did employers look at your AUC TEFL MA and in which countries did you work in the gulf, if you don't mind me asking?
I'm definitely applying to this program for 2016-2018 and also applying to all of those fellowships.
----------
| hash wrote: |
| PS - Assuming you're from the US, there are now several places in the USA that offer MA degrees in TESOL (or similar) after only one year of study. Last time I looked, I found about 10 such institutions - there may be more now. |
So, I found that this is the case for a lot of UK Masters degrees, i.e., the fact that they're one year in length, but they cost at least $20,000 for international students. Along with living expenses in the UK for about eight months, it's just not something I can afford.
I saw that the University of Exeter has a summer intensive program (four weeks in July for two summers in a row and then a thesis the last year: a total of three years), and the tuition can be paid over two years. It's the only UK university with this option according to their website, so it's a more financially viable option, but this begs the question: would KSA employers consider this "part-time" or "online" because the papers and thesis are turned in online, although all the classes are face-to-face and delivered on campus. For those interested, here's the program's website:
http://socialsciences.exeter.ac.uk/education/graduatestudies/masters/tesolsummer/
I'm going to try to look these US 1-year MA in TESOL programs up because all I've been able to find are 2-year programs. I'll post information about them on this thread when I get the details.
Last edited by nichtta on Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:07 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
How nice that someone can actually do their own research and find the good stuff. 
As to the dangers of Egypt these days, things are settled down significantly, and the new AUC campus is far from the madding crowds. I would say that as long as one uses common sense as a woman... don't join a demonstration... don't be out wandering the streets or taking taxis in the middle of the night... it is as safe as anywhere else in the world (probably safer than most). There is the verbal harassment that places like Egypt and Morocco are famous for, but after a month of walking twice a day through the bus station in Tahrir Square, I just ignored them and soon I didn't even hear it.  Rather like living next to a busy highway... soon you don't hear it.
| Quote: |
| VS, how did employers look at your AUC TEFL MA and in which countries did you work in the gulf, if you don't mind me asking? |
I worked at SQU and a small private college in Oman, HCT in Abu Dhabi, KU in Kuwait, and AUC. It is highly regarded in the Middle East, especially if you have been teaching in their programs along the way. There are actually a few well-known American ESL people who went through the program and/or taught in the program in the past. If one wants to teach in the Arabic speaking world, this is probably one of, if not the best, MA to have as far as regard by the employers.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nichtta wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| I think you mean nationally-accredited Turkish universities. |
I said internationally accredited because I know of many examples of students studying in Turkey then completing their degrees (either Masters or PhD) in North America or Europe, i.e., their Bachelors or Masters degrees were recognized and accepted. I've seen this for both Turkish nationals as well as foreigners, who studied here. However, that doesn't matter if KSA's government (thanks for pointing out that its their governments that set these restrictions) or other gulf countries don't recognize it just like how online degrees' acceptance in North America and Europe is irrelevant to KSA. |
Using the term "internationally accredited" implies that there's an actual international accrediting body that 1) uses established, universal standards to evaluate the academic competencies of individual, degree-granting educational institutions throughout the world; and 2) is held accountable and recognized as valid by government education departments/ministries worldwide. No such accrediting body exists. Prospective students from foreign countries have their degrees evaluated on an individual basis by the admissions departments in their target universities. But their foreign degrees reflect the accreditation standards set by their specific country governments.
As for the Gulf, foreign degrees are obviously accepted given that many nationals from non-Anglophone countries teach in the region; it's not a government requirement. However, some employers prefer to see a TEFL-related degree from a university that holds accreditation from the US, UK, New Zealand, or...
| and wrote: |
| I feel like their restrictions are just getting ridiculous at this point. What does being born in these countries confirm? I have many friends, who were born abroad but came to the US at a young age and speak English as any other native speaker would. |
I've rarely seen job ads that state applicants must have been born in an Anglophone country. It's something I would have taken note of because I was born in a non-English speaking country myself. Yet, during interviews, I've never been asked about the circumstances of my birthplace or if my family had immigrated to the US. But then, I always noted on my CV that I'm a US citizen and native English speaker. Anyway, it's really a non-issue for those with native fluency regardless of where they were born. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nomad soul wrote: |
| nichtta wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| I think you mean nationally-accredited Turkish universities. |
I said internationally accredited because I know of many examples of students studying in Turkey then completing their degrees (either Masters or PhD) in North America or Europe, i.e., their Bachelors or Masters degrees were recognized and accepted. I've seen this for both Turkish nationals as well as foreigners, who studied here. However, that doesn't matter if KSA's government (thanks for pointing out that its their governments that set these restrictions) or other gulf countries don't recognize it just like how online degrees' acceptance in North America and Europe is irrelevant to KSA. |
Using the term "internationally accredited" implies that there's an actual international accrediting body that 1) uses established, universal standards to evaluate the academic competencies of individual, degree-granting educational institutions throughout the world; and 2) is held accountable and recognized as valid by government education departments/ministries worldwide. No such accrediting body exists. Prospective students from foreign countries have their degrees evaluated on an individual basis by the admissions departments in their target universities. But their foreign degrees reflect the accreditation standards set by their specific country governments. |
I see what you mean now and understand your point. By "international" what I meant was "existing, occurring, or carried on between nations." However, this, of course, doesn't necessarily mean that every single country in the world recognizes these standards and is involved in the process or the governing body that accredits universities.
Again, just for clarification, I just meant accreditation that is used beyond national borders, i.e., in more than one country. For engineering, there is, just as an example, ENAEE (The European Network for Accreditation of Engineering Education), which actually authorizes Turkey's MÜDEK (The Association for Evaluation and Accreditation of Engineering Programs) to award the EUR-ACE Label to Turkish universities' engineering programs plus MÜDEK's, of course, for Turkey in addition to following the Turkish government's national legislation. Therefore this could be something that is used in all North American countries, European countries, etc. Another example of this international recognition (although not an accrediting body, credits are reconized and transferred) and exchange is the ERASMUS program of which Turkey is a member state. In addition, although not an accreditation, Turkey is a part of the Bologna Process--in which 48 other European nations are also involved--via Turkey's Ministry of Higher Education: http://ec.europa.eu/education/policy/higher-education/bologna-process_en.htm
For elementary, middle, and high school, this would be something such as PYP, MYB, and IB. In other words, an accrediting body that isn't limited to the borders of one's nation and recognized in more than one country.
I'm really happy to see these international standards because they mean an easier flow of students, exchange of knowledge, and a much wider broadening of our horizons in this global village we call earth.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| As for the Gulf, foreign degrees are obviously accepted given that many nationals from non-Anglophone countries teach in the region; it's not a government requirement. However, some employers prefer to see a TEFL-related degree from a university that holds accreditation from the US, UK, New Zealand, or... |
I thank you for sharing that! It's good to read. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Willoughby
Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Masters in TESOL from Turkey Recognized? |
|
|
| nichtta wrote: |
Hey Everyone,
It seems pretty clear to me that the best jobs in KSA and other gulf countries require at least an MA in English Literature, |
How would an MA in Eng Lit be useful in teaching ESOL? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Masters in TESOL from Turkey Recognized? |
|
|
| Willoughby wrote: |
| nichtta wrote: |
| It seems pretty clear to me that the best jobs in KSA and other gulf countries require at least an MA in English Literature, |
How would an MA in Eng Lit be useful in teaching ESOL? |
Nichtta's assumption is incorrect. The better employers don't view an English Lit degree as relevant to TEFL; you'll rarely see it indicated as a "preferred" degree, if at all. Some ads actually state that an English Lit degree is not accepted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tony87
Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 43
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Every employer in the KSA is a shitty employer - cos they make you live in the KSA! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mnruman
Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 93
Location: Manchester, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tony87 wrote: |
| Every employer in the KSA is a shitty employer - cos they make you live in the KSA! |
Just out of curiosity, if you have this view then why is it that you're in the KSA form browsing posts in here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Is a Masters in TESOL from Turkey Recognized? |
|
|
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Willoughby wrote: |
| nichtta wrote: |
| It seems pretty clear to me that the best jobs in KSA and other gulf countries require at least an MA in English Literature, |
How would an MA in Eng Lit be useful in teaching ESOL? |
Nichtta's assumption is incorrect. The better employers don't view an English Lit degree as relevant to TEFL; you'll rarely see it indicated as a "preferred" degree, if at all. Some ads actually state that an English Lit degree is not accepted. |
I agree, Willoughby, that a degree in English literature doesn't appear to prepare someone to teach English to others as a second language, although it may be useful for advanced students of English, who are reading novels and writing papers. Unfortunately, I can see how many employers would assume otherwise.
Also, yes, you're right, Nomad Soul, that my assumption was simply that: an assumption that was based on looking at some ads and not based on boots-on-the-ground practical experience like yourself in KSA. Therefore I admit my ignorance and the fact that I was incorrect in that assumption.
To explain why I added it in my inquiry, I'd like to share what King Abdulaziz University's English Language Institute, which is often mentioned here on the forums as a good place, wrote to me earlier this year:
| Quote: |
| We are currently hiring English language instructors with a BA and MA in English Language Teaching (TEFL/TESOL). However, our minimum requirement is BA in English plus CELTA or MA in TESOL.. Unfortunately, your major is irrelevant. |
Although they weren't actively hiring anyone with a degree in English, I wrongly assumed that their willingness to potentially accept a minimum qualification of a BA in English plus a CELTA meant 1) this BA was in English Literature/Rhetoric and Composition, and 2) if an applicant also had an MA in English (Literature/Rhetoric and Composition) that this might also be considered. However, I see now that I was wrong because the author of the e-mail might have just been justifying the employment of someone in their department with those qualifications who was hired many years ago. By the way, I should say that this e-mail was from someone writing on behalf of the head of the department, who was also CC-ed to the e-mail exchange.
On the other hand, a place like Prince Sultan University, also often mentioned as a good employer in KSA, makes no mention of it at all, which further proves how wrong I was:
| Quote: |
QUALIFICATIONS AND EXPERIENCE
Applicants should be
- NATIVE SPEAKERS OF ENGLISH with
- a minimum of MA in TEFL/TESL or Applied Linguistics, or
- a one-academic year,full-time postgraduate diploma in TEFL/TESL from a recognized
university.
- In addition, they should have
- Two years' minimum overseas teaching experience in EFL/ESL, preferably with intensive EAP course experience. Added advantages are
- Previous experience teaching university-level human communications, public speaking, advanced academic writing and reading, all of which provide opportunities to
join our University English Program.
- The ability to teach Elementary French, Spanish or German would also be an advantage, but not an absolute requirement. |
As for employers that aren't the best, I've seen English mentioned quite a bit alongside TESOL. As an example, here's a quote from the e-mail B3H, the military contractor, sent me:
| Quote: |
Candidate Qualifications for Teaching American English as a Second Language:
1. Hold a Masters degree (or doctorate) in TESL, ESL, EFL, ESOL, TEFL, TESOL, Applied Linguistics/English/Foreign Languages plus more than one year of professional experience teaching ESL/EFL to adults.
2. Hold a Bachelors degree in Teaching English as a Second Language/ESL/ EFL/ESOL/TESL/TEFL/TESOL/ (Applied) Linguistics/ English/Foreign Languages plus more than five years of professional experience teaching ESL/EFL to adults.
3. Hold any undergraduate degree with at least 24 semester hours of undergraduate language related courses leading to a major in ESL/EFL/ESOL/TESL/TEFL/TESOL/ (Applied) Linguistics plus more than 5 years of professional experience teaching ESL/EFL to adults. |
I thank you for bringing this up to me and making it more clear. It seems an MA in TESOL is the very best option to make a candidate really stand out. Plus, I hope that I'll learn something useful from my classes, which I can take to my next place of employment. Or maybe I'm just being naive here.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
