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jj_jetsetter · Joined: 26 Nov 2015 Posts: 10

So, while I'd originally planned to move abroad in January, I have now decided to return to school to complete a Master of the Arts degree in English. Mainly, I'm doing this just because I was extremely close to finishing it before I left school two years ago (I only needed to complete my thesis portion of the degree). What I am wondering now, though, is whether this Master's degree will garner me any higher pay once I finish and move abroad. I already have a BA in English, but I don't have a teacher's certificate or TEFL. My only teaching experience thus far includes about a year of tutoring composition to Esl students in the states. I am hoping that the MA will give me access to higher salaries, but I'm not certain that they really hold all that much value to Chinese employers. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this issue?

OhBudPowellWhereArtThou · Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003

Generally speaking, in a public university, the MA will bump you up to the next pay scale from a BA degree. If you perform well in class, it won't earn you more money beyond that, but it seems that the English majors who are good teachers are often assigned the classes that are composed solely of English majors and are better students.

It's possible that you'll be assigned English classes that are more than oral English. Of course, you'll probably be assigned writing classes (as are most FTs at some point) but since you'll be working with better students, it won't so arduous provided that you aren't assigned more than one or two such classes.

If you are an effective and likable teacher, the FAO may even recommend you for private tutoring.

I can't speak to language mills or other situations.

jj_jetsetter · Joined: 26 Nov 2015 Posts: 10

OhBudPowellWhereArtThou · Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003

It depends upon the province. Some provinces pay better than others. I am unsure if the pay scale is set by the province, but there seems to be a tendency for public universities in a given province to pay pretty much the same. There are probably loads of exceptions. One that I can think of (the last time that I compared salaries of public universities was 3-4 years ago) was a university in Gansu. It was out in the middle of nowhere, but it was offering about 1,000 rmb per month more than public universities in Jiangsu. It was also a pretty good university.

Shanghai Noon · Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Posts: 589 Location: Shanghai, China

jimpellow · Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 913

There's been threads before on this if you want to expand your knowledge base.

The MA will most likely bring you prestige and respect from the Chinese. There are not a lot of Chinese running around with Masters, and not a lot of ESL teachers that have them. I have two (one online) and they never really did anything for me save perhaps help me secure a subject teaching position, for which I was paid the same as the other subject teachers, and certainly less than those who taught the hard sciences.

So there are advantages as the above posters say, but you correct overall in your assessment that the market does not really value them. It generally values malleable white faces who the students like and are not causing too many problems when they are out drunk and wilding. Even if you look at the pay difference in the Universities, it is often laughable. Along the lines of 6000 BA, 7000 MA, 8000PHd.

But since you are so close I would do it as you intend to do before you lose your chance. My younger brother dallied with finishing his thesis for years as he feared his architecture firm would lay him off. He lives in Buffalo where the market has been dead for years. He noticed that anyone at his firm who did anything notable to improve their credentials got laid off as they ran the risk of demanding a higher salary. Eventually he got laid off anyways, and his time to complete his thesis expired, reducing his opportunities for the rest of his life.

Even if your MA does not really do much for you in China, the time will most likely come when you will want to leave the Middle Kingdom and will be very grateful that you have completed it.

On a side note, you will most likely need to increase your experience to two years before you apply to meet current regulations, or be prepared for fewer areas to which you can apply and/or some hoops you and the school will have to try to hop through.

jj_jetsetter · Joined: 26 Nov 2015 Posts: 10

OhBudPowellWhereArtThou · Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Posts: 1168 Location: Since 2003

"...but my lack of experience, as I understand it, may make this difficult. .."

Apply for an assistantship when you apply to graduate school. An assistantship usually pays your tuition PLUS gives you one year experience tutoring and one year teaching, the minimum requirements to be hired full time as a university lecturer (in the U.S.). You also get paid for the assistantships.

jj_jetsetter · Joined: 26 Nov 2015 Posts: 10

jimpellow · Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 913

Thanks for the concern about my brother. Fortunately for him my dad was also an architect who was/is well networked. My brother was able to happen by chance into a rare opening right away at another firm without missing a paycheck. Still, looking at how bad that field is mired, he has lost the ability to in the future to teach at a local college, etc.

If you are set on China, you could do something online for the year or such. As long as they can verify it you should be fine. It's not the school who demands it, but the government for deluded reasons.

I think you will find if you decide to enter ESL that you will find some individuals, schools and cultures prefer experience, while others prefer aptitude. I would just focus on the latter rather than play the subservient "eager to learn" game. They are usually the more dynamic organizations in my estimation anyways.

If you get a CELTA or such, you would be prime material for a Gulf Country. They are overly concerned about educational backgrounds in English related subjects.

Of course, teaching in the Gulf entails teaching a bunch of young men who think a classroom is for anything but learning. I think it could be argued that this is rather the attitude with most Chinese high school prep and university students. I think that Shanghai Noon's response has great value in that it should direct you on where to look in China if you want to leverage your MA and do so in a financially and personally rewarding way.

jj_jetsetter · Joined: 26 Nov 2015 Posts: 10

hdeth · Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 583

While having an advanced degree won't necessary get you much more pay, it can open some doors and make it easier to get hired. At my current job at an 'international' school they were willing to hire me, even though I didn't have a teacher's cert, based on my advanced degree. For what is hopefully my next job, they are looking into having me teach some more advanced English classes based on said advanced degree.

While other countries may look for teaching-related degrees, I think an MA in English would be impressive and unique in China. Most TEFLers have an MA in some sort of TESOL related field rather than English. They may think because you have an MA in English you are amazing at writing or something along those lines. Be creative and confident when you sell it.

That being said, if all I had to work on was a thesis I would try to find a way to do it long distance while working at a uni gig. If you have to take out loans that would suck.

Your 2 years post-graduate work experience doesn't have to be teaching. I think it's mainly there because they don't want people who are too young and immature.

jimpellow · Joined: 12 Oct 2007 Posts: 913

"Your 2 years post-graduate work experience doesn't have to be teaching. I think it's mainly there because they don't want people who are too young and immature."

To me it seems to be that it has to "related". Now, of course, how closely related seems to fluctuate wildly over time and location. I would certainly agree that they have tried to "weed out" the kids recently. I also think you hit the nail on the head with international schools and using his MA to open doors.

This was a good link posted by someone else not long back.

http://www.goodairlanguage.com/teaching-english-online-2/

This is not the only board I ramble on. Within this thread is my two cents on regions to look at when teaching online.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=110959

With your background you could also look at exam grading. Companies like Pearson will hire for such. There is quite a lot going on these days for online education.

As for verifying your online employment, that shouldn't be a problem if you work for someone reputable and ask them up front if they can provide a work reference. Some places like Beijing ask for reference letters that must be dated with the length of employment which adds up to 2 years plus. I am sure that applicants without the two years, as well as their recruiters/schools have found ways to fudge this with Photoshop etc...