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I much prefer Japan to China, but am I mistaken? Myth/truth?
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kpjf

Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject:

mitsui wrote:

Anyone who has taught in Japan knows what I talk about.

That does not answer my question.

rtm

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Shanghai

kpjf wrote:

Couldn't we also argue the exact opposite? I don't think many Taiwanese/HKers would be happy at being labelled China! At least the ones I know.

Right, but by listing Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, nothing is being labeled as "China," so that problem is avoided.

Beyond that, the rankings might list Shanghai and HK as such because even though HK is unarguably part of China, it has a different system.

kpjf

Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Shanghai

rtm wrote:

kpjf wrote:

Couldn't we also argue the exact opposite? I don't think many Taiwanese/HKers would be happy at being labelled China! At least the ones I know.

I see your point of course, but the other 64 participants are countries, why should the 65th be allowed the exception? Because we don't want to offend the mighty Chinese government? It would be like having a World Cup and allowing Bayern Munich to take part instead of Germany. Maybe we should be changing "Taiwan" to Taipei while we're at it? Wink

Quote:

From the BBC:
Shanghai was the single most successful education system, but there were complaints that the standards in an individual city should not be measured against the outcomes of a diverse national system, such as the United States or Germany.

Exactly. This study is designed to test ability in a whole country, not one selective area.

RM1983

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Shanghai

kpjf wrote:

rtm wrote:

kpjf wrote:

Couldn't we also argue the exact opposite? I don't think many Taiwanese/HKers would be happy at being labelled China! At least the ones I know.

Quote:

Exactly. This study is designed to test ability in a whole country, not one selective area.

You posted the stupid list to back up your own point, I don't know why you're complaining about it now or why you posted it in the first place.

Anyway, I'm wary of lists like this most of the time, you need to be well aware of what is at stake and what is being measured.

You might find a list that ranks Japanese high in terms of English ability then you go there and find nobody speaks it to you.

While several places are actually seeking to emulate the Japanese school system, would you be up for adapting it in your own country? Shanghai could be a nice example there, do you know the pressures the children are under there to produce test results? My experience of talking to people that have been raised under these sort of systems is that they tend to be on the side of it isn't worth it. They end up resenting the place that educated them and they say they forget most of what they learn at school (like we all do) anyway.

I think you made a few good points though. I couldn't imagine teaching in a public school and not having at least some demotivated students, especially when it comes to teaching English in Japan. That's par for the course and the fact is English still plays second fiddle to other subjects and the overall Nihonjin training they are going through. There must be so many teachers around the world who face similar troubles. Language teachers in English speaking countries for starters!

I wouldn't say the education system is bad on the whole, but there is lack of flexibility there regarding English.

There are signs that this will cause trouble as well, depending on what you read. Today I read a news report saying China and Korea are overtaking them in terms of academic publications, and I have heard a good deal about how their low English ability is damaging their competitive edge in many other areas.

kpjf

Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Shanghai

RM1983 wrote:

You posted the stupid list to back up your own point, I don't know why you're complaining about it now

Because rtm was trying to justify why Shanghai are in a list where every other participants is a country so I was discussing this with him/her. I thought that was pretty obvious!

The list is a pretty respected global school league table.

Quote:

...or why you posted it in the first place.

Because of the other poster talking about how crap the Japanese education system is and comparing it to Finland with no idea of the reality. Yet, that person is too negative and narrow-minded to open his eyes.

Quote:

While several places are actually seeking to emulate the Japanese school system, would you be up for adapting it in your own country?

I don't advocate emulating any country's system in my country. They tried this in the UK, I'm not sure if you heard of this BBC programme http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b065661d? Whilst it showed better test performance it would never work in UK. The Finnish system may be perfect in Finland but suck in Taiwan and vice versa.

mitsui

Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:08 am Post subject:

Well at least I live in this country and have taught here. Anyone who has worked here knows changes are needed. A lack of critical thinking is a big issue here, as is rote memorization. Even Japanese people are interested in what Finnish education is.

RM1983

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 360

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Shanghai

kpjf wrote:

RM1983 wrote:

You posted the stupid list to back up your own point, I don't know why you're complaining about it now

Quote:

...or why you posted it in the first place.

Quote:

While several places are actually seeking to emulate the Japanese school system, would you be up for adapting it in your own country?

I haven't heard of that, but I will check it when we get our new internet connection.

A while ago, actually on this forum, someone posted a news article saying that research has shown rote learning and obedience are genetically built into South East Asian peoples. Controversial but interesting.