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MixtecaMike · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 643 Location: Guatebad

As guests in Mexico we are not supposed to indulge in political activities, but we are definitely affected by it.

I know several of us are in Oaxaca state, and we have elections this Sunday, so I'm interested in knowing whether you have any opinions/hopes as to who will be the winner?

PRI dinosaurs are widely disliked by many foreigners, but then again for those of us who work in universities the PAN-PRD combo pack candidate has said pretty much that all the funding is going to UABJO, which means none for our institutions.

Does anybody think a Panista will pay the slightest attention to the Perredistas once he is in office, even though he is supposedly a coalition candidate?

I'm out of here anyway, so unless there is a terrible revolution in the next two weeks it won't matter to me either way, but for those in for the long haul, what do you all think?

BTW I'm hoping for and expecting a good Ulises victory.

POLL CLOSES SUNDAY, if I've figured this out correctly, LOL

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

Is there a third option, like "None of the above"...?

MELEE · Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:01 pm Post subject:

THERE IS a third option, but you don't see many posters around town for him. If I remember right his name is Hector Sanchez Lopez (or was it Lopez Sanchez?) who is running for the Unidad Popular (UP) party.

I will abstatine from voting is this poll as my FM3 Status mandates Wink

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Since probably no one who participates in this forum is permitted to vote in M�xico, I fail to see the point of its being hijacked for the purpose of electoral propaganda.

scott wilhelm · Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 63 Location: st louis, mo

I'm no expert on Mexican politics, but I can't see why the PRD is in a partnership with the PAN. Wouldn't the PRD be making a smarter move by standing on its own as the center-left alternative to the 2 major parties that push neo-liberal economics (PAN and PRI) ? As I understand it, PRI and PAN are ideologically closer than the PRD and the PAN. What goes ?
My basic understanding of the orientation of the 3 major parties is:

PAN-right of center but not extreme. Similar to a moderate Brit Tory or perhaps a Bush (the Daddy) Republican.
PRI-Centrist to slightly right of center. Corrupt but not as much as it used to be, thanks to Zedillo.
PRD-On balance a moderate left social democratic party resembling the pre-Blair British Labor party, with a handful of mild Marxists in its left wing and people resembling a tradtional liberal U.S. Democrat in its right wing.
My understanding is that Mexicans don't like exremists-left or right. Have I gotten it all wrong ?

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

You didn't get it all wrong, Scott. In the struggle for power, because no party now has a clear majority of votes, here in Mexico, in order to vote out one party, the other two major parties--or a major party and a few of the smaller parties such at the Workers�Party or the Greens-- have to form an alliance of voters. This is nothing peculiar to Mexico; the expression, "Politics makes strange bedfellows", has been around for a long time.

scott wilhelm · Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 63 Location: st louis, mo

Thanks for the reply Moonraven. It makes sense that the PRD may form an alliance with the Greens (also a moderate left party). I'm not familiar
with the Worker's Party. By its name, I'm guessing it is on the Left, but I have no idea how far. If it is really Left, I doubt PRD would associate with it ? From what I've heard from left-leaning Mexicans, they find the ultra-left scary. By ultra-left I mean Stalinist or Maoist. I know that people like Castro and Guevera have some ideological friends in Mexico (mostly among students from what I could tell) but that most Mexican leftists would find Cuba an unacceptable model. I have never been to Cuba but have heard from a journalist who has spent a lot of time there that Castro's Marxist rhetoric has always been far more extreme than his actual economic policies. This journalist told me that Castro is a leftist for certain, and that one wouldn't want to seriously cross him, but that he uses the word communist only because in Cuba that was a good word long before 1959 and that he has an audience to play to. He assures me that if I would have visited Cuba even when the Soviet Union was still around, I would have found Castro's brand of socialism to be a mix of state enterprise and lots of small privately owned businesses. I remember reading in National Geographic once that Castro is more pragmatist than ideologue. Even at that, I can't imagine the PRD getting too chummy with any party that carries Che or Fidel posters.
Any chance of PRD and Green coming to power in an election anytime soon and governing as a center-left social democratic coalition that won't scare the hell out of the business community but that will un-do neo-liberalism's excesses ?

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Sorry to disappoint you, Scott, but the PRD is bleeding from just about all body parts due to shooting itself and being attacked by the PAN and to a lesser degree, the PRI. Reason: L�pez Obrador, regent of Mexico's City's government, continues to be way out in front in the potential presidential candidates list for 2006. Unfortunately, the Green party here is a complete fake--because parties receive a lot of money from the federal government, a guy formed the Greens here--and then his son took over the party--the son was captured on video asking for a 2 million dollar bribe last March in Cancun.

Of course Fidel Castro is the archetypal pragmatist--that's why he has been in power for 45 years!

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

scott wilhelm · Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 63 Location: st louis, mo

Moonraven,
I didn't know that the Greens have run into legal troubles in Mexico. Looks like the PRD may have to go it on its own. I had no idea of how much the support the Greens had there. I know in Germany they are in a coalition government with the Social Democrats. Here in the U.S. they are very , very small. Most people here that have environmental leanings see them as sort of silly and that a vote for them is a vote for the Republicans.
If I make my move to Mexico (will be deciding soon-leaning towards doing it)) I'm sure I'll enjoy following Mexican politcs, even though I won't be able to participate in it.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Scott, I assume your comment about not being able to participate was facetious. You sound like a pretty resourceful guy to me--if you want to participate you'll find ways to do so without the folks from Gobernaci�n applying Article 33 of the Constitution and booting you out of the country.

MixtecaMike · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 643 Location: Guatebad

Still no clear result here in Oaxaca, both Cue and Ulises have claimed victory, but that's hardly a surprise.

I was enjoying election coverage on teleformula yesterday and early this morning, if you can read Spanish look into www.radioformula.com.mx

Eduardo Ruiz Healy and Gustavo Renteria are both good fun to read and listen too.

One of Ruiz' guests made a good point when he said the Oaxacan election was not PAN vs PRI, rather one group of PRIistas against another group of PRIistas. Mexican politics is always great fun, as long as you understand it's the haves against some other haves, LOL.

Un pol�tico pobre es un pobre pol�tico

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Yep--La Jornada calls the process in Oaxaca FRATRICIDE.

The source of the quote Mike mentioned is Carlos Hank Gonz�lez, the archetype of the political parasite--held every office except that of President of the Republic, and ran his own fuedal kingdom in Estado de M�xico. He died a few years ago; no one knows for sure if he took it all with him, but his sons Carlos and Jorge--barons in their own right of banks, racetracks, and apparently narcotrafficking at high speed, are now very active in politics--Jorge will probably end up as Mayor of Tijuana when all the results of yesterday's elections are in....

scott wilhelm · Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 63 Location: st louis, mo

Thanks for the nice compliment about my being resourceful. I suppose I am. But I'm not bold enough to dabble in the politics of any country I'm only a guest in. I think my only politcal activity in Mexico will consist of casting an absentee ballot in U.S. elections. As for Mexico's politics I'll just have to enjoy it as a spectator, unless Mexico changes its laws about such things. And I don't see that happening.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

It's VERY hard to avoid politics. A few days ago my students were debating the question, "Is all education political?" (A quote from Paulo Freire phrased in question form.) The overwhelming response (90%)--with lots behind it--was "Yes". So if you're teaching....