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Blue Skies
Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 22
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 Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Blue Skies wrote: |
The only "pranks" involved here are the ones pulled by the unethical agents who persuaded the ignorant newbies to come work in China without a Z visa. We all heard their lies...
" It's okay to work your first 90 day probationary period without a Z visa"
" Don't worry, after you get to China your employer will get you a z visa"
" No big deal because our company has guanxi (connections) with the government"
" The law was just changed two weeks ago and now its okay to work on a L, M, or F visa in China."
" We are partners with the China Ministry of Education and have a special exemption."
If people follow the China visa laws they have nothing to worry about getting arrested or deported. There are dozens of warnings all over this China section about MANDATORY Z visas, as well as at http://safea.gov.cn and every embassy web site. If people are too lazy to check out the visa laws of the country they are visiting, they will learn their lesson the hard way. We also arrest, jail, and deport illegal aliens back in America, Canada, and the U.K. Why the hell do you think it would be any different in China? http://www.antifraudintl.org/threads/beware-of-china-internship-visa-scams.96692/#post-264961 Have you guys already forget about the Disney teachers that were busted and deported last year in Chengdu for the very same Z visa issue? http://www.vice.com/read/the-chinese-esl-industrial-complex-shady-working-conditions-abound-for-foreign-english-teachers-in-china-127
To the guy who said the law is not "clear" and "constantly changing", he has his head up his ass, or might be an agent himself who uses one of the above lies to recruit newbies. The 2015 China foreign teacher requirements are "very clear":
1. Verifiable bachelor degree
2. Z Visa (work visa)
3. 2 years verifiable work experience
4. Police certificate in Beijing & Shanghai (no criminal record)
5. Ages 21-55
Yes, the law does change from time to time but no change has been made since July of 2013 and those changes went into effect of on September of 2013. |
Sorry for typo. Age limit should read 55 and not 25. Although if you get a job working in China before age 55 they will allow you to work until age 60. |
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JamesD
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Blue Skies wrote: |
| ...Although if you get a job working in China before age 55 they will allow you to work until age 60. |
I give up. To continuously post misinformation like this is beyond irresponsible. It's simple fantasy.
Signed,
Over 60 |
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Blue Skies
Joined: 29 Nov 2015
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| JamesD wrote: |
| Blue Skies wrote: |
| ...Although if you get a job working in China before age 55 they will allow you to work until age 60. |
I give up. To continuously post misinformation like this is beyond irresponsible. It's simple fantasy.
Signed,
Over 60 |
The only way you will LEGALLY get a Z visa in China over age 60 is if you have your own registered business and are self-employed by that business according to Mrs. Zhang at SAFEA in Beijing. You can look and call for yourself as I just did. http://safea.gov.cn Tel: 86-10-68948899
If you found a loophole in the law, please share it with us. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Actually current labor regs allows for the employment of over aged professionals if the work unit signs a responsibility document ... Yes the legal age for foreigners is age 60, however there are professors and teachers working in Beijing well past 60.....and you well may be right when saying you may not get the Z visa, but if already holding the papers, it is possible.
| Quote: |
| The only way you will LEGALLY |
Now just a cotton pickin Irving Berlin moment, Blue Skies if'n' u know anything bout china, u don't go and ask around an office with ye ole' principle pushers and you don't speak in absolutes. Also u don't dispense legal advice with certainty when u ain't qualified to do so....
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| please share it with us. |
While I can and do encourage the sharing of information, but when it comes to information that does not directly concern the majority of FT's in China, the main reason for posting is to encourage a counter productive dialogue and thus most of the older gents on these boards already know the real deal and in such cases when they are willing to share their success it is done in a P2P manor and unless you are truly in need of this information , why is it a concern to you or to anyone else who has not reached the twilight of their madness.... |
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JamesD
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| asiannationmc wrote: |
| .......anyone else who has not reached the twilight of their madness.... |
Gee, thanks a lot! (whippersnapper!  ) Now where's my cane? |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:54 am Post subject: |
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The amount of misinformation in this thread is astonishing. One comment from an earlier post is completely wrong. The school is not responsible for ensuring you have the correct visa. Go and ask the PSB and they will tell you in no uncertain terms that it is your responsibility, and yours alone, to ensure you have the correct visa. It doesn't matter what the FAO or SAFEA say, they are not the issuing authority.
As for the age? Are we talking about applying for a Z visa or renewing an RP?
I just renewed my RP last week in Beijing. (I don't work in a school, I don''t own my own business, my company categorically has not signed any form of responsibility document). I will be 64 next month. I can guarantee that my presence here, and all my documentation is 100% legal.
It is irresponsible to go around spouting about laws which may or may not exist and which may or may not be applied. Anyone who has been here any length of time will tell you that the only law that applies is the one you were told on the day you re-applied for whatever. And just because it works or doesn't work for one person in one city or province today, is no guarantee that the result will be the same tomorrow in the same city or province, or any other city or province for that matter.
This is China. If you want to stay here, ignore what other people tell you you should or must do. Do exactly what the authorities tell you you should do on the day in question.
The only exception I would make to that rule is the old, old, story. Working in China needs a Z visa to enter China. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Blue Skies wrote: |
The only way you will LEGALLY get a Z visa in China ... according to Mrs. Zhang at SAFEA in Beijing. You can look and call for yourself as I just did. http://safea.gov.cn Tel: 86-10-68948899
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I think this explains a lot. Give the man fifty cents and move on. |
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mike w
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Beijing building site
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The only way you will LEGALLY get a Z visa in China ... according to Mrs. Zhang at SAFEA in Beijing. You can look and call for yourself as I just did. http://safea.gov.cn Tel: 86-10-68948899 |
Maybe I'm missing something here. But if you are already in China, why would you need a Z visa? The whole purpose of the Z visa is to ENTER China to work. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| I don't work in a school, I don''t own my own business, my company categorically has not signed any form of responsibility document) |
There may be more work around to this than was stated.....I [quote]would never say that Dave's is the end all to acquiring the info needed.
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I will be 64 next month. I can guarantee that my presence here, and all my documentation is 100% legal. |
I believe ya......but there are others who have fallen under the age restriction and have failed to complete the process due to it....During my last year a waver was signed in my case, and it was based on the "needs" of the franchise program. I had wanted to quit several years before and kept working out deals with the university to stay on.... I still work for em'(British University) but no longer as an employee....and no longer on any Chinese campus.
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asiannationmc wrote:
.......anyone else who has not reached the twilight of their madness....
Gee, thanks a lot! (whippersnapper! Very Happy) Now where's my cane?
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If it makes you feel any better, I am likely older than you ... heck I did my service when christ was a corporal....and these days I might trip over a cane .. but I reach for my pipe.... |
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JB140767
Joined: 09 Aug 2015
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JamesD wrote: |
| Blue Skies wrote: |
| ...Although if you get a job working in China before age 55 they will allow you to work until age 60. |
I give up. To continuously post misinformation like this is beyond irresponsible. It's simple fantasy.
Signed,
Over 60 |
Agreed - place where I used to work has a dozen guys over 60. Had a few over 70. One guy I know id having a little trouble getting the visa now he is 72, but, get it he did. People posting otherwise are misinformed, and misinforming |
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weigookin74
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: |
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This quote --> "I was one of 69 people rounded up yesterday for not being able to produce my passport after leaving an expat Christmas party at the Sheraton. "
Do you have to carry your passport around on you at all times? In other countries, I just carried my VISA or my foreign Alien ID Card. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| weigookin74 wrote: |
This quote --> "I was one of 69 people rounded up yesterday for not being able to produce my passport after leaving an expat Christmas party at the Sheraton. "
Do you have to carry your passport around on you at all times? |
No. A scanned copy of your passport/residence permit saved on your phone, or a paper copy on your person will be fine. If the police ever stop you, which is rare in this country, you can show what you have and if they want the actual passport they're usually reasonable enough to allow time for you to get it. Keeping your FAOs number on speed dial is also a good idea. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Depends, I believe you are supposed to carry on ya at all times, but most do carry a copy....I haven't for some time .... but I have seen instances where they demanded to see the real deal and took the individual to the cop shop first and then later, much later to his house to get the passport. during the big crack down last year on motorcycles in Beijing I did carry my passport and was asked to see it at some checkpoints.... |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| asiannationmc wrote: |
| Depends, I believe you are supposed to carry on ya at all times, but most do carry a copy....I haven't for some time .... but I have seen instances where they demanded to see the real deal and took the individual to the cop shop first and then later, much later to his house to get the passport. during the big crack down last year on motorcycles in Beijing I did carry my passport and was asked to see it at some checkpoints.... |
Cruising around on your bike is very different then cruising around on your feet. I mentioned in one post before about being asked and refusing. Cop just gave up. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue Skies wrote: |
The only way you will LEGALLY get a Z visa in China over age 60 is if you have your own registered business and are self-employed by that business according to Mrs. Zhang at SAFEA in Beijing. You can look and call for yourself as I just did. http://safea.gov.cn Tel: 86-10-68948899
If you found a loophole in the law, please share it with us. |
WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Here's the loop hole: Apply for a job with a reputable school while out-of-country in your home country. Get hired. Pass the medical test(s). Jump through the usual hoops of getting a Z visa. Arrive, then get your residence permit. Then behave yourself.
Simple. |
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