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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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 Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| Second, it is impossible to "use" them, except by saying one thing and doing another. That is psychologically unhealthy, and it goes a long way towards explaining my passion about this topic. They have the upper hand, once you get to Japan and until you leave. Anyone who thinks that they have somehow won in this game is suffering from self-delusion. |
Well, as you seem to equate walking away from the paycheck with winning (winning at least your self-respect back), where's the problem personally? Poverty is ennobling, and you can't save every wage slave - there are billions of 'em (us) all trying to do the decent thing and not simply go rob a bank or fleece people! (Slight irony alert LOL - "Eikaiwa are business first, education second"). Yes, it takes a lot to get one's head around, but most people seem to manage it somehow (often while planning or dreaming of exit strategies). |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| Second, it is impossible to "use" them, except by saying one thing and doing another. That is psychologically unhealthy, and it goes a long way towards explaining my passion about this topic. They have the upper hand, once you get to Japan and until you leave. Anyone who thinks that they have somehow won in this game is suffering from self-delusion. |
Well, as you seem to equate walking away from the paycheck with winning (winning at least your self-respect back), where's the problem personally? Poverty is ennobling, and you can't save every wage slave - there are billions of 'em (us) all trying to do the decent thing and not simply go rob a bank or fleece people! (Slight irony alert LOL - "Eikaiwa are business first, education second"). Yes, it takes a lot to get one's head around, but most people seem to manage it somehow (often while planning or dreaming of exit strategies). |
I don't think poverty is ennobling, and I gained my self-respect back by standing up to people who sought to push me around after I got back home.
There is no place else on the internet that I am aware of that examines the initial training week with this much scrutiny. This is all for the benefit for people who are considering the company, and it is to the benefit of people who need to understand what will transpire during the first week, so they are emotionally and mentally prepared for a situation where they are at a massive disadvantage power-wise.
Trolling the internet is a useless activity 99% of the time. In this particular case, it has been desperately needed for a very long time. |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Those expecting RSLrunner to make a fresh start in the new year and finally let this go will be deeply disappointed. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
This is all for the benefit for people who are considering the company, and it is to the benefit of people who need to understand what will transpire during the first week, so they are emotionally and mentally prepared for a situation where they are at a massive disadvantage power-wise.
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That's ALL new jobs, and especially so in a foreign culture, and it's intensified even then when going from a flattened work environment (like in North America) to an extremely hierarchal culture both in work and in everyday life. As TokyoLiz wrote, it's about Japan. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| Those expecting RSLrunner to make a fresh start in the new year and finally let this go will be deeply disappointed. |
If Aeon ceases its bait and switch tactics, then I won't have much more to talk about.
The problem may be with Japanese culture in general. But that's not my problem.
My problem, and more importantly, the problem of every prospective and new Aeon employee, is that they are not told the simple truth about their schedule.
There has been excuses, empty justifications, emptier threats, and of course name-calling. But nobody has refuted anything I have said. The only direct and legitimate response to this in this thread has been "It doesn't matter." One is allowed to believe that. But I don't, and I don't think anyone else should either.
As long as Aeon continues to pursue this willful deceit, I will unilaterally point it out, until such time that Aeon decides that transparency and integrity about its schedule practices reigns.
This: http://www.aeonet.com/life-at-aeon/expectations-and-responsibilities/
Truth: the schedule does not include a meeting before school or cleaning responsibilities.
If this schedule issue is not a big deal, why not be truthful about it?
I provided the actual schedule for Aeon employees at the beginning of this thread. If it is wrong, I need to know. If it is right, then I am 100% right to point out this putrid bait and switch, and shame Aeon publicly so that their conduct and willful manipulation is at least exposed, if not stopped.
This issue festers because Aeon leadership has decided that forcing people into unpaid overtime is still worth the bad publicity inherent in this thread. It's important to change that equation.
I am not going away.... |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| The problem may be with Japanese culture in general. But that's not my problem. |
That's right, it's not you problem. In fact, Aeon and its practices are not your problem, either. It ceased to be when you left.
You don't live and work here, or have the experience of negotiating the conditions of people working here. Your posts show you have no regard for those of us who do so, struggling or thriving here under the current conditions. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| rslrunner wrote: |
| The only direct and legitimate response to this in this thread has been "It doesn't matter." One is allowed to believe that. But I don't, and I don't think anyone else should either. |
Saying that one is allowed to believe something but then immediately saying they shouldn't believe it is surely a contradiction? Especially when the majority of those actually "affected" don't think it matters that much. (Ditto what TokyoLiz said, in other words).
Personally I'd be more worried about the silly methodology some of these eikaiwa seem wont to impose (as teaching it would take up a lot more than just 15 minutes a day), but you've only mentioned that once or twice and just in passing, and keep returning to quite marginal "issues".
It would be like seeing someone who e.g. failed the CELTA after objecting to its training "not allowing oneself to be oneself" or some other vague (vaguely-worded and -argued) concern then writing several ~22-page threads almost solely on how strange or misleading it is that the CELTA is bracketed as the CTESOL nowadays (see the header here: http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/teaching-english/teaching-qualifications/celta/ ). [I mean, if and when I for one criticize e.g. the CELTA method, at least I go on to e.g. demonstrate more functionally-convincing methodology and joined-up thinking - I'm not just stuck in the past but looking forward to my own teaching. Others are free - and how would I ultimately stop them - to continue to teach as they wish or were trained, but some may find something of actual use in my posts. Oh, and I passed, by the way LOL].
Frankly, little or indeed nothing of what you've written so far makes for particularly interesting, edifying or convincing reading. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I think people would like the record changed, as the current one is a bit one-note and seems to have got stuck. Do you have any thoughts regarding actual teaching, for example? (I may've asked that question before, though!   ). |
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nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| My problem, and more importantly, the problem of every prospective and new Aeon employee, is that they are not told the simple truth about their schedule. |
It's not often I resort to shouting in all caps but you've left me no choice.
YOUR PROBLEM WAS NEVER ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SCHEDULE!! YOU DIDN'T EVEN SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH TO GET A SCHEDULE! YOUR PROBLEM WAS THAT AEON SACKED YOU FOR BEING AN UTTERLY USELESS TRAINEE!
Get over it, move on with your life. This is pathetic. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| nightsintodreams wrote: |
| Quote: |
| My problem, and more importantly, the problem of every prospective and new Aeon employee, is that they are not told the simple truth about their schedule. |
It's not often I resort to shouting in all caps but you've left me no choice.
YOUR PROBLEM WAS NEVER ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SCHEDULE!! YOU DIDN'T EVEN SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH TO GET A SCHEDULE! YOUR PROBLEM WAS THAT AEON SACKED YOU FOR BEING AN UTTERLY USELESS TRAINEE!
Get over it, move on with your life. This is pathetic. |
Well, you did have a choice in terms of using caps, but I have no problem with you using them.
I don't want you to get upset.
Don't shoot the messenger, if the message is correct. No matter how much you don't believe the messenger is suited to discuss these matters, the reality is that my experience made me uniquely positioned to inform and empower others who have yet to enter the Aeon system, and will experience a training week that is profoundly different from a typical corporate environment. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The problem may be with Japanese culture in general. But that's not my problem. |
That's right, it's not you problem. In fact, Aeon and its practices are not your problem, either. It ceased to be when you left.
You don't live and work here, or have the experience of negotiating the conditions of people working here. Your posts show you have no regard for those of us who do so, struggling or thriving here under the current conditions. |
I agree that my posts that are not designed for people who already live in Japan. That is 100% correct.
My target audience is the people who have not arrived to Japan, and will have to experience things like the initial trading week for the first time. They can decide for themselves the merit of my posts.
At the very least, even my biggest detractor must acknowledge that the information laid out about the initial training week is helpful.
Tokyoliz, I am telling readers that Aeon in particular, and Japan in general, is not worth it. The culture leads people to try to remake people into something different from what they are, and that is not something I can support. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| The only direct and legitimate response to this in this thread has been "It doesn't matter." One is allowed to believe that. But I don't, and I don't think anyone else should either. |
Saying that one is allowed to believe something but then immediately saying they shouldn't believe it is surely a contradiction? Especially when the majority of those actually "affected" don't think it matters that much. (Ditto what TokyoLiz said, in other words).
Personally I'd be more worried about the silly methodology some of these eikaiwa seem wont to impose (as teaching it would take up a lot more than just 15 minutes a day), but you've only mentioned that once or twice and just in passing, and keep returning to quite marginal "issues".
It would be like seeing someone who e.g. failed the CELTA after objecting to its training "not allowing oneself to be oneself" or some other vague (vaguely-worded and -argued) concern then writing several ~22-page threads almost solely on how strange or misleading it is that the CELTA is bracketed as the CTESOL nowadays (see the header here: http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/teaching-english/teaching-qualifications/celta/ ). [I mean, if and when I for one criticize e.g. the CELTA method, at least I go on to e.g. demonstrate more functionally-convincing methodology and joined-up thinking - I'm not just stuck in the past but looking forward to my own teaching. Others are free - and how would I ultimately stop them - to continue to teach as they wish or were trained, but some may find something of actual use in my posts. Oh, and I passed, by the way LOL].
Frankly, little or indeed nothing of what you've written so far makes for particularly interesting, edifying or convincing reading. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I think people would like the record changed, as the current one is a bit one-note and seems to have got stuck. Do you have any thoughts regarding actual teaching, for example? (I may've asked that question before, though! ). |
It's not the methodology itself that's the problem. The problem is that the methodology is given to people under duress. i talked about this before earlier.
I am a Johnny One Note. I agree. I focus on a few things because nobody else will, and people have gotten it into their heads that discussing these issues is somehow bad form. Which is why nobody has reviewed the precise nature of the training week until I cam along. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:48 am Post subject: |
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You're still not listening, so I'll shout this one, too.
NO, YOUR MESSAGE IS NOT CORRECT.
AEON'S CORPORATE ENVIRONMEMT IS TYPICAL OF JAPAN. MOST CORPORATE TRAINING IS LIKE THIS FOR JAPANESE AND FOREIGN NEW RECRUITS ALIKE.
THE REALITY IS YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF CORPORATE LIFE IN JAPAN, AND YOU ARE UNIQUELY POSITIONED FAR AWAY.
YOU'VE DONE NOTHING TO CHANGE THE SITUATION THROUGH CHANNELS THAT AFFECT THE PLIGHT OF CURRENT OR FUTURE AEON EMPLOYEES.
Phew. |
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rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
You're still not listening, so I'll shout this one, too.
NO, YOUR MESSAGE IS NOT CORRECT.
AEON'S CORPORATE ENVIRONMEMT IS TYPICAL OF JAPAN. MOST CORPORATE TRAINING IS LIKE THIS FOR JAPANESE AND FOREIGN NEW RECRUITS ALIKE.
THE REALITY IS YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF CORPORATE LIFE IN JAPAN, AND YOU ARE UNIQUELY POSITIONED FAR AWAY.
YOU'VE DONE NOTHING TO CHANGE THE SITUATION THROUGH CHANNELS THAT AFFECT THE PLIGHT OF CURRENT OR FUTURE AEON EMPLOYEES.
Phew. |
Let's take it down a notch....
I listen to you very carefully.
If the corporate training of Aeon is typical of Japan, then everyone needs to know what that corporate training entails. Which means more material will be presented than anyone can reasonably handle, and there is a heavy placement put on behavior modification.
If someone arrives to training on a Monday, and they are required to provide a specific methodology the very next day, they should know that in advance. They should know a lot of other things in advance.
I am uniquely positioned far away. That allows me to throw some spitballs, but it also means that I can provide concrete information, at the beginning of this thread, that could be construed worthwhile. People can decide for themselves.
I do not have the power to change the corporate culture. I can just let people know my experience, and give them a dissenting perspective. That's it. That's all that I'm doing.
Tokyoliz, I am afraid that you can't say that the information provided here has no value. That's not your call, just like it's not my call. It is the call of the reader.
If someone is going to experience a corporate environment which much more closely resembles an Erhard Seminars Training than a typical training session, they should know beforehand. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| If the corporate training of Aeon is typical of Japan, then everyone needs to know what that corporate training entails. Which means more material will be presented than anyone can reasonably handle, and there is a heavy placement put on behavior modification. |
That's true of any heavily structured corporate environment. It's also true of education institutions.
Many schools, and particularly language education programs, impose a particular set of attitudes and approaches on their teachers. This requires a vast amount of documentation, which can seem overwhelming. Aeon is a toxic version of this kind of large-scale program.
The info you have gone on and on about is not particularly well informed, which reduces its value. Many of the Aeon practices you object to are not unique to Aeon, but parts of the work culture of Japan - the mass processing of new recruits, unpaid overtime not stated in contracts, a rigid top-down method that may or may not be rational. I and other posters here have responded to these points.
If there is any value to these lengthy threads, then it depends on the exposure of the real conditions and work culture, which you perceive to be offensive, as explained by those of us who live and work here. |
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