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sicklyman
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930
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 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Saudi Aramco redundancies |
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| In the heat of the moment wrote: |
| government buildings will only be open from 3-4 PM on Thursday to save on electricity bills. |
what? no one told me they were open outside these hours at the moment!  |
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chrisp728
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Saudi Aramco redundancies |
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| In the heat of the moment wrote: |
| government buildings will only be open from 3-4 PM on Thursday to save on electricity bills. |
So no decrease in operational efficiency then  |
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airapets
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 78
Location: The Middle Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| scot47 wrote: |
"To work your notice" is presumably a British expression and not one used or understood over The Great Waters.
It means that you are required to work the period stipulated as the period required to be notified before termination by the employer.
What would the expression be stateside ? |
Since literally no American is working with a contract - what with the death of unions, the average employer will just wait until you have worked the last day that they need you... and call you in, hand you your final check and a box to empty your desk. A good employer will have given you a week or two of extra pay in there to help out, but it is not required by law.
I remember at my first job after college... in an office (there were no education jobs). People kept disappearing. At least once or twice a week, there would be another empty desk. I finally went in to the boss of the accounting department and bluntly asked him when my name was coming up on the list. He said that I would be one of the last to go because of my position, but that if he was me, he would start job hunting and not to worry about giving notice. I had another job before the end of the week.
Because in the US system, only the employee has to give notice, not the employer.
VS |
You're free to negotiate your contract as you see fit, including matters of notice. If your would be employer is not interested, you are free to seek another job. All of my jobs in the states were at-will, meaning I could choose to stop working when I liked. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| airapets wrote: |
| You're free to negotiate your contract as you see fit, including matters of notice. If your would be employer is not interested, you are free to seek another job. All of my jobs in the states were at-will, meaning I could choose to stop working when I liked. |
Huh? What contract? I worked in accounting for over 20 years and ESL teaching for 4 years in the US for various employers and never once saw a contract. (I signed my first employment contract in the Gulf after working for nearly 20 years) Only the small minority of American workers who are union have contracts.
Yes, I could choose to quit whenever I wished, but I always gave notice, the length of which was negotiated at delivery - usually 1-2 weeks. Employers can and do terminate at will.
But we digress...
VS |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Freelancers/independent contractors in the US generally have termination and notice provisions that cover the conditions and timeframe for terminating the contractor-client relationship. Otherwise, the two parties would have to discuss how to end the relationship via mutual agreement.
However, in the case of Aramco and its contractors, these terms and conditions are addressed, although there may be a provision that the contract can be amended at any time by the client or sponsor without agreement from the other party. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Freelancers/independent contractors in the US generally have termination and notice provisions that cover the conditions and timeframe for terminating the contractor-client relationship. Otherwise, the two parties would have to discuss how to end the relationship via mutual agreement. |
Even when I was free lancing I never had a contract... and not even as an adjunct teacher. Probably 75-80% of all employees in the US are of the last option.
It was nice to have a contract in the Gulf and generally know the parameters... even if all Gulf employers didn't quite follow all the provisions while employees were held to the letter. 
VS |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| In Australia, the length of notice that an employee has to give for a full-time /permanent position is determined by how often you get paid. If you get paid fortnightly then it's two weeks written notice, if you get paid monthly, a month etc. As an employer, trying to get rid of a full-time staff member, however, can be a nightmare, (depending on the circumstances), due to very strict 'wrongful dismissal' laws. I disagree with it (or at least I disagree with the way it's been implemented in Australia), but that's the way it is. For 'casual'/part-time positions, no notice is required by either party. |
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airapets
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 78
Location: The Middle Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| airapets wrote: |
| You're free to negotiate your contract as you see fit, including matters of notice. If your would be employer is not interested, you are free to seek another job. All of my jobs in the states were at-will, meaning I could choose to stop working when I liked. |
Huh? What contract? I worked in accounting for over 20 years and ESL teaching for 4 years in the US for various employers and never once saw a contract. (I signed my first employment contract in the Gulf after working for nearly 20 years) Only the small minority of American workers who are union have contracts.
Yes, I could choose to quit whenever I wished, but I always gave notice, the length of which was negotiated at delivery - usually 1-2 weeks. Employers can and do terminate at will.
But we digress...
VS |
You saying so does not make it so. My cousin owns a plumbing business and his workers are on contract. They aren't unionized. My father, before retirement, worked on many contracts, again, not unionized. My mother worked as a legal secretary, all over the US, and had contracts for all of her jobs, not unionized. You extrapolated from your own experience to make a universal. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Only the small minority of American workers who are union have contracts. |
I don't think it's as cut and dry as all that. There are all kinds of employment arrangements, even in the USA. They may not be called "contracts" but constructively and in effect, that's what they are in that the provisions are legally binding.
1- Faculty with tenure work within a contract-like arrangement.
2- Civil Service employees both state and federal, have job retention rights similar to tenured faculty.
3- High level executive employees often work within contract-like arrangements, to wit:
"It’s not unusual for high-level executives to be hired pursuant to a written contract that obligates them to stay with the company for a set period of time (two or three years, for instance) and obligates the company to retain the executive for the same period absent an action specified in the contract as grounds for termination."
Contracts come in various shapes and sizes. There are "at-will" contracts, written, oral, implied and so on contracts.
In some cases, former employees are barred from taking similar jobs within the same industry for a certain amount of years. No employee is going to sign such a legally binding agreement unless he is assured of adequate compensation to cover those designated years.
Of course, anyone can be "fired" at a moment's notice for a legally-defined "cause", but that cause has to fall within certain legally described boundaries.
Even POTUS (the President of the United States) can be fired....in which case it's called impeachment. Again, legal cause has to be provided. |
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gregory999
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 372
Location: 999
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
| Even POTUS (the President of the United States) can be fired....in which case it's called impeachment. Again, legal cause has to be provided. |
I wonder if Trump can be impeached for political bias and promoting a political agenda against minorities in the USA?
But I doubt the Republicans, who control the senate, will accept the impeachment.  |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it the season of "The gathering-in of the Exiles" before the End Days ? I dunno - I am going to dig the garden. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
1- Faculty with tenure work within a contract-like arrangement.
2- Civil Service employees both state and federal, have job retention rights similar to tenured faculty.
3- High level executive employees often work within contract-like arrangements, to wit: |
That defines the minority... add in union workers. It is the other 80+% of American workers that have no contract and no protections. As I said above...
VS |
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izmigari
Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 197
Location: Rubbing shoulders with the 8-Ball in the top left pocket
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
Even POTUS (the President of the United States) can be fired....in which case it's called impeachment. Again, legal cause has to be provided. |
Actually, "La". "Impeachment" is analogous to "indictment" by Congressional authority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment#United_States
But, don't let me deter you, Mr. former-Vinnell man...keep cutting corners on the truth. |
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