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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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 Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the response, nomad soul.
| nomad soul wrote: |
"Hating/hatin' on" is urban slang for criticizing or complaining about someone or something. It has absolutely nothing to do with spreading hate on other forum boards. I was simply pointing out that Saudi Arabia shouldn't be the only target of your criticism. VS got it. |
In that case, apologies. I appear to be out of date when it comes to contemporary slang, and, to be honest, I took the term "hating" to be closer to its original context.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| As for calling you a liar, I have no clue what you're basing that on. |
I said many times on this thread that I'm personally not that bothered by the policy discussed (i.e. I have no 'skin' in that game and it won't affect my life). You responded with a "Nah, you do care; it's obviously a sore spot for you". So, you basically said I'm misrepresenting myself, which is the same as saying I'm lying. The fact that you were not in a position to know what you were talking about we will put to the side. I'll tell you what, if I write something on this forum, please do me the courtesy of believing my sincerity and I'll do the same for you.
| nomad soul wrote: |
If you're referring to the scenario you initially posted (i.e., "Applicant B, who has a Masters in Applied Linguistics, ten years of teaching experience, is published and also studied at XYZ University is ineligible for the visa because she happened to have completed her qualifications via distance education"), I read and interpreted it as written. It wasn't clear that you meant your (or her) BA as well. |
No, I wasn't referring to that. I don't want to belabor the point, but the plural noun did suggest one scenerio more than the other. However, I acknowledge it was an easy misunderstanding to have and no harm done. I didn't mind that. At least you were engaging with what I said instead of making stuff up (see above).
| nomad soul wrote: |
But if you're referring to my "sore spot" comment, I suspect your pride is somewhat hurt based on your statement (twice) that the Saudis "get what they deserve." Frankly, whose ego wouldn't be bruised if they worked hard on their degree only to find out it wouldn't be accepted for whatever reason.
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Nope. No hurt pride and I couldn't care less. What I would care about very much, however, is if this idiotic policy spreads to other areas. But, I doubt very much that will happen. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised, in a few years, if even the relevant GCC states reverse it. One, because it's stupid and, two, because they are shooting themselves in the foot.
In regards to my comments about the "Saudis getting what they deserved", I did say that on just about every post I made on this thread. I also repeatedly said that "I don't care". There were actually two reasons for that. One, because I believe it and I think it's true. Secondly, I was hoping to head-off-at-the-pass the predictable, all-encompassing counter arguments that seem very much in vogue on Dave's various Gulf forums. The "if you don't like it, you don't have to come here/you can leave" nugget is defanged because I've already said that "I don't really care" that much about it and the classic "this is their country, they make the rules" is somewhat negated by the fact that I've already half agreed with them. They do indeed make the rules and they will reap what the sow. Anyway, that was the intention, but, whether it was actually effective is another matter.
| nomad soul wrote: |
But seriously, no one is calling you a liar. |
Yeah, as already mentioned, I think you kind of did. However, if you are saying it was unintentional then we will just call it a misunderstanding and leave it at that  .
| nomad soul wrote: |
Anyway, Scot47 sums it up quite well.  |
What he said was correct. Basically, there were two parts to his comment. He said that this is their country and they make the rules. I think everyone here would agree with that. The second part was that Saudis don't give a damn what we think, which also infers, I guess, that nothing will change because of what is said here. I agree with this, but just have a few observations.
Firstly, this forum isn't for Saudi nationals. It is for foreign teachers to discuss issues relating to living and working in the KSA. As such, this topic definitely fits within that purview. If a member wants to view threads as worthwhile based on whether they will change things, or whether Saudi nationals will care about the opinions expressed within it, they are free to do so. If they see a thread that's not, in their view, worthwhile, then they don't have to read it or post in it. I know for many of the 'older' contributers here that this topic has become tiresome and I understand that. However, it's not for me as it's new to me and is about an issue of interest to me. If others feel the same way, then great. Personally, I'm curious if I'm going to hear a persuasive argument as to why the policy is of benefit, or a good idea. I'd like to, but, so far I'm not holding my breath. |
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bosch02
Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| . Anyway, TEFL opportunities in the UAE will be greatly reduced by 2018, so that leaves Oman. It is what it is. |
What makes you think that? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| bosch02 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Anyway, TEFL opportunities in the UAE will be greatly reduced by 2018, so that leaves Oman. It is what it is. |
What makes you think that? |
If you're asking about the UAE, see Foundation year at UAE state universities to be scrapped from 2018. There's also a 2014 discussion thread on the topic on the UAE forum. Hiring has already slowed down. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Not to mention that the biggest employer in the UAE, the Higher Colleges of Technology, have gone totally down the toilet as far as an employer. They have gone from one of the top employers in the Gulf to a job that is only for the totally desperate. Pay and benefits are tanking as I type. Lots of resignations this year and the money is on most jobs ending up with non-native speakers.
Since the foundation program is supposed to be phased out, there will likely be plenty of language school type jobs appearing. Long hours, large classes, low salary, and few benefits.
VS |
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Makkah
Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Bit of a joke requiring a degree or MA to teach a student how to bring a pen to class and then hold it  .
I recall attending a presentation where a Saudi was listing the numerous qualifications he had .....'one year on site MA from Loughborough University' He still couldn't even pronounce it.  Made us wonder if he was ever there at all.  |
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Pikgitina
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 420
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder how many of us can pronounce simple Arabic place names correctly? Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, Dhahran, Yanbu...all of those and many others I find impossible to pronounce correctly. Oh I can Anglicise these words, but not say them like an Arabic speaker would.
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Makkah
Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess if one studied in a uni in any city for a year I think one would know how to pronounce the name of that city or university. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think that is her point.
The town in England with name is pronounced there as "luffboro"
Interestingly in Kirkcaldy there is a main thoroughfare named after thjs English town and it is universally called "Lowboro" Road. Or at least it was in my youth when Gordon Brown and I used to hang out there. That was before he abandoned the righteous path and became a career politician. |
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bosch02
Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| sheikh radlinrol wrote: |
| scot47 wrote: |
I think that is her point.
The town in England with name is pronounced there as "luffboro"
Interestingly in Kirkcaldy there is a main thoroughfare named after thjs English town and it is universally called "Lowboro" Road. Or at least it was in my youth when Gordon Brown and I used to hang out there. That was before he abandoned the righteous path and became a career politician. |
How many Sassenachs can pronounce Kirkcaldy? The local team is Raith Rovers. Raith must be a neighbourhood of Kirkcaldy.  |
what does this have to do with the degrees accepted in Saudi Arabia / M.E. ? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing
It is called conversation drift.
As for Distance Learning and KSA there is no point in screaming
"Not Fair"
or
"Foolish Saudis"
They won't change to suit you !
Their Ball Park - their rules ! |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Given the sharp decrease of enrollment in western universities abroad, perhaps the Ministry will rethink its position on distance learning. Online degrees via accredited universities in the UK, US, etc., would be a viable solution for serious MA degree-seeking Saudis who were cut from the scholarship program due to budget reductions. Similarly, it's still unclear if the Saudi government has gone ahead with approving the presence of foreign universities in KSA (like the UAE and Qatar). But that's years away. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Given the sharp decrease of enrollment in western universities abroad, perhaps the Ministry will rethink its position on distance learning. Online degrees via accredited universities in the UK, US, etc., would be a viable solution for serious MA degree-seeking Saudis who were cut from the scholarship program due to budget reductions. Similarly, it's still unclear if the Saudi government has gone ahead with approving the presence of foreign universities in KSA (like the UAE and Qatar). But that's years away. |
Probably. Also let's not forget how much the Internet has changed things. Distance educational students can (and do) watch lectures, participate in tutorials, collaborate with fellow students etc, just like the internal students, except they just do it online. It certainly wasn't that way when I did my first distance educational unit 'back in the day'. However, all that meant was that, back then, it was harder to study externally and, if anything, a good grade earned via distance education was, in my view, more of an achievement than what a similar mark would be with an internal student.
Don't get me wrong, certain subjects, have to be studied on campus. For example, Medicine is only open to on campus student and rightly so. However, for subjects like history, literature, linguistics, etc., I honestly think, these days, the difference in quality in terms of education or educational experience, is negligible. Plus, given how many Western countries are cutting back on education spending, the attraction of being able to work and study at the same time will become more and more real. I'd bet the farm that distance education is going to keep growing in the West and, in time, for certain subject areas, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually become a more common option than studying internally. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Sergeant please look up the distinction between "infer" and "imply"
If in doubt, consult Johnslat. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dear sciot47,
Are you inferring that I know the distinction? Or have I implied wrongly?
Regards,
John |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| My dear Johnslat, I did not wish to make the implication that you are a Smartass. |
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