Job Discussion Forums

[vnam]

Hi Guys

I need some advice on areas to work and job offers received if possible. Any input would be much appreciated.

The first is a post in Nanjing teaching GAC (ESL & basic science) at a high school (17-18 year olds.) It's up to 20 hrs a week plus 8 office hrs, the usual benefits are included such as flights and housing plus paid winter break and national days. I've been offered 14k for this. Is this a good city to live given it's close-ish proximity to Shanghai etc and what do you think of the offer?

The second is an offer for a similar post in Wuxi and one in Xian, however the salary is at 15k and 16k respectively, both jobs offer very similar benefits to the Nanjing position. I have a better feel for the Nanjing position though, they seem a little more professional in their communication and the school looks good so im keen on this post.

I'm not a huge party goer anymore and am looking for somewhere with good travel links and decent living environment. I also love food so availability of Western and international food is a requirement as well as good local cuisine.

I'm not a new teacher and have experience, although im not masters or PGCE subject qualified, just degree and TEFL plus experience.

Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks in advance

[Non Sequitur]

Run the offers past this checklist:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=91394

I'm OK with the first offer but the office hours shouldn't be there in a SAFEA contract.

[jagb6f]

Hey Vnam!

Sadly, I can't comment on how good/bad the offer is. It sounds good to me, but I don't know the particulars and I'm pretty new to China, and I've only worked at Training centers.

However, I CAN speak about Nanjing as I've been living here for the last year and a half. I'm living on around 11k a month+free apartment and I always manage to save quite a bit of money to put toward my student loans while still having fun/eating out all the time so 14k would be just fine.

Talking about the food, I think Nanjing has pretty great Western food locations. The catch is that the best foreign restaurants are in the city center of Xinjiekou, and I'm not sure how close your school would be to there. Nanjing is a big city and I'm living in the outskirts of Jiangning, so it takes me about 40 minutes to get there. Kind of a long commute for just a good pizza/burger, but I've made the trip a few times. Hopefully you're closer.

Nanjing is also a much quieter city than places like Shanghai or Beijing. There's a lot more parks I think, and it's pretty beautiful here. The pollution is moderate, but recently it seems like it's been going down so I'm hopeful.

One of the best things about Nanjing is exactly what you mentioned...the travel links. Nanjing is in a really awesome location for traveling to other places in and out of China. It's a short train ride to Shanghai and even Beijing, and there are a ton of awesome places a short plane ride away. Hong Kong is about 2 hours by plane, so is Japan, Vietnam, Thailand and pretty much everything in-between. If you want a good, centrally-located, jumping-off point for travel, it's hard to beat Nanjing.

I check these boards often, so if you have any more questions about Nanjing, feel free to ask!

[vnam]

Thanks guys. I'm definitely leaning toward Nanjing now, it looks like my school and the accommodation is in the centre which is good. Just negotiating a few more contract details and then i will consider signing. How is the internet there btw, and can you get around the city by motorbike/scooter?

As it's my first China post getting the Z visa sorted is surprisingly complex and expensive, especially as i have been teaching abroad recently. Fingers crossed.

[jagb6f]

Sounds good! Always a good idea to make sure contract details are ironed out.

As to your 2 questions-First, the internet here(at least for me) is fair. It's fast enough for all the important things I need to do, which is good. However, I have cable internet and it slows WAY down during the evenings. I'm not sure if it's possible to get more reliable DSL/other internet here. I can still watch YouTube and everything(Just to make sure, you REALLY need to get a good VPN if you don't have one yet) but it takes awhile to load.

As to your 2nd question, I myself have a motorbike, but I recommend you get used to the traffic here first before you buy one. I'm not sure if you've been to a developing country like China before, but traffic rules are regarded as more of a very, very minor suggestions. It's pretty terrifying at first, but you do get used to it.

[jimpellow]

Nanjing is a nice city IMHO for living. It has enough amenities such as 1912, Burger King, that kick ass German bakery near Johns Hopkins along with pretty girls, but fairly pleasant and livable for a large city (for Chinese standards). Chinese tend to talk s*** about it as the education system associates it to the demonic Republic of China. But a great location to explore one of the more history rich regions of China.

Visas for China are a bitch now, and Nanjing is up there on the anal list.

I do have to wonder about the basic science? Are you qualified to teach the hard sciences in a high school prep program? If so, you are selling yourself short on salary.

Sounds like you will be working for JESIE?

[vnam]

Thanks guys. Yes one of the offers is for JESIE. They seem to be decent but if you any info i'd be keen to know.

The visa is a bit of a nightmare. Very expensive in the UK @ (£178) plus all the costs for health checks and notarisation etc

[LarssonCrew]

My health check and notarisation were 450 gdp and 162 gdp. So expect another 600 on top plus flights s plus first month living

[vnam]

As i'm currently in Vietnam the health check should be around $50 so not too bad.

The Z Visa cost here in Vietnam is $30, but apparently i have to get it from my home country so the cost will be very high in the UK as mentioned above.

They also want my degree notarised by the Chinese embassy in the UK, which is considerable hassle as my home is nowhere near any of the UK based embassies and you have to take it in person to be stamped etc. The initial outlay is surprisingly steep now before you even get started.

[rogerwilco]

Two of my friends were hired by JESIE about 5 years ago.

Both of them got jerked around regarding their work visas.
They entered China on tourist visas with promises of being sent to HK for work visas.

That never happened, and they both worked for a year on tourist visas and having to fly to HK every 3 months at their own expense to maintain those tourist visas.

They were promised jobs at the headquarters in Nanjing, but both were sent to very small cities in Jiangsu.

JESIE publishes their own textbooks, and they were each given a total of 17 textbooks to teach two grades at a high school.

[jimpellow]

I did a two and a half years with JESIE, but out in Jingjiang and Xuzhou. But this ended a few years ago so things may have changed.

They are certainly not a perfect employer. But I don't think the horror stories are at all typical of their employment. There were some fine Westerners and Chinese there, and also some not so fine ones.

I thought they were absolutely excellent with the visas for the group I was working in. They are sort of an umbrella group and the issues one hears with visas seems to be associated with certain programs and the managing personnel. To be honest, I could never quite figure out (or tried to) how they all worked together.

The biggest gripe you would hear, including from myself, is that they will change cities on you. Have a contract to be in Nanjing? Getting excited? Sorry, but you may spend a year in some polluted hellhole in the middle of nowhere as their needs have changed, or they just used Nanjing to bait you.
(You can find some posts around the boards to learn more about that, along with the reference to it in the post above)

If you work in Nanjing, you tend to work more than you do out in the field. But a better lifestyle, camaraderie and more support.

Be careful too with the terms for the paid summer vacation. This changed when I was there, and it amounted to a screw job unless you stuck to your guns on the contract.

I would ask what textbooks you would be using for the science class. If they are the ones used for the IUP prep program, then I would think that they are changing the job title to get qualified hard science subject teachers below what the market pays.

There was a trend when I was there towards the end to "Chinese" upper management so the Chinese way would prevail. To "Chinese" anything that aspires to quality is pretty much the norm in the PRC though.

But that was 3-4 years back, so hopefully somebody here can give a more up to date opinion.

[vnam]

Interesting that you bring up the change of cities. At the very last minute after some further questions on the contract I was told that there is a 'small chance' that I would have to work in another city for two days per week, but the remainder of the time would be in Nanjing. They worded it as a 'business trip' lol, and that it's not definite. I've been in Asia long enough to realise that this will no doubt be a certainty though.

I think I need to get all this clarified before I sign, don't want to be stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere most of the time.

[jimpellow]

[vnam]

The curriculum is GAC which is ESL/Science/IT & Business from what my research has indicated. I can see that there is a demand for teachers of this type of prep course in China, as it is supposed to get students into US/UK/Aussie universities upon completion.

The initial offer was actually for 11k RMB, but i negotiated this to 14K. They told me that it is unusual for them to go this high for this type of post. After speaking with the school headteacher i did get a much better feeling for the JESIE job than most of the other places i'd spoke to. The job in Wuxi and Xian for example had a ridiculous $8k breach clause(!) which they wouldn't budge on. They also said i would have to be in the school 8-5pm every day, even though the contact hours would be around 16 per week. The JESIE position seems a lot more flexible in regards to this.

The contract end date is Aug 2017. I queried this and was told that i would be teaching in the summer, so obviously some sort of summer program.

I will talk to them further about the change of towns. I've been offered a much higher salary to teach the GAC in 3rd tier cities such as Lianyungang but have declined as they seem a little backwater. If i was sent there by JESIE to teach i would consider this a breach of contract and expect to be released as per the contract if i wasn't happy, but i want to avoid this in the first place. Thanks for the advice guys.

[jimpellow]

Personally, the first couple summers were off with no work, and I was back in the States with my stuff stored in China, and a return ticket bought when I received word of the change of plans.

Obviously, I was not happy. When I re-signed, I specifically had it written in my contract that I would be in Nanjing. I was sort of materially committed to returning to China, and not wanting to to do another job search and the visa hassles.

So, I sucked it up. I did get to go to a decent city and arguably the best partner school. I just sort of became a hermit for the year and focused on my online business and making plans after the year was up that did not include China.

Yes, the region of Jiangsu that Lianyungang is located in is oddly backwater. Lianyungang would be ok for those wanting to save as it is not terribly expensive nor loaded with opportunities to spend money. It has a lot of South Koreans looking for English teachers and very few to serve them.

The stated salary used to be net? I just flat out do not believe them about the rare exception they are making with your salary. Still, it is pretty good for them.

The office hours are new it seems. In Nanjing you will be teaching the 20. In the field, it used to vary. My first semester I worked 6 a week the program was just starting up there. My last year i worked 21 to 27 every week (they pay overtime) while the two other teachers at the school averaged about 10. Best to act inept and ignorant about being qualified to teach anything once you get the position, or you will be teaching everything.

The IUP program had some very big names behind it when it started. It was meant to give China a standard for the the prep programs, and foreign universities more confidence in the abilities and credentials of the $students$.