Job Discussion Forums

[twowheel]

[7969]

[LarssonCrew]

Thanks for the personal attack. If you had ever worked outside of ESL you'd know that company training is paid. That's my time. 8 hours a day for ten days is eighty hours of my time. But hey. You love China and will.defend it to your last bloo d I'm sure. Just told.them I expect pay rent for training and also that due to.thw nationalistic things being posted I wasn't even sure I'd want to go China anymore because there is more anti foreigner sentiment. They ponied up the cash after moaning.

[LarssonCrew]

Also, in most developed countries you are entitled for payment if you are working, which is classified as 'under the instruction of your employer'. Is sitting in an office and listening to them and/or doing what they say 'please plan your worksheets' etc. not employment, and therefore I should be entitled to be paid?

Since you love China so much though I'm sure you'd do alot for free.

[Non Sequitur]

I think the basic problem is one which has been touched on before.
That is, the Chinese penchant to relitigating everything to do with employment.
Even though they may have had countless situations where they expect new hires to turn up early in their own time to prepare AND LOST THE ARGUMENT, they will still attempt it again, as in this case.
There seems to be no point at which a body of process around staffing is set and agreed. Every point is still there to be haggled over.
Larssoncrew made a good point about his/her protagonist ie 'Have you any experience in Western job markets?'
The question is: 'Do the Chinese move towards Western norms or does the reverse happen?'
I expect if you ask the employer: 'Please advise the list of textbooks you will be providing?' the response will be 'none'.
The 'lesson planning' done in those 2 unpaid weeks will be totally you showing them YOUR materials.

[LarssonCrew]

Depends. Yes, they're chipping up for me to turn up and plan, fair game. If they hadn't then in theory it would be worse than a volunteering position because in a volunteer position you at least get free housing and free meals, if it was unpaid I would be paying to eat, rent somewhere, 2 weeks of extra phone use, etc.

When we go in for training if it is 'just be in the office for the sake of being in the office' then I would honestly just not have the cash and let me turn up 2 days before I begin.

I've got plenty of experience, I'm liked by students and admin and I know what I'm doing in the class for this level.

Of course, it's not all negative, it could all be good, i.e. they immediately tell me the list of the holidays for the year ahead [which would be a godsend and have me tapping up skyscanner for flights out of there], and also 'here are the books, this is what we expect, this is the schedule, this is blah blah', but I'm afraid that it'll be the normal Chinese of asking me to be in the office 8-1 and actually not having anything for me to do.

If I turn up and say 'ok, what do you want me to do?' and they just say 'lesson plan' and then walk away it'll be a typical Chinese fashion

[7969]

[LarssonCrew]

Firstly, unless you're doing your hobby for your job, most people want to get paid.

I feel I bring alot of knowledge, skills, expertise to the table, should I not then demand fair compensation for that? I've helped Chinese apply for citizenship within EU countries and charged upwards of $200 an hour, so why cheap out on pay?

Do you work for free? Nothing wrong with working to make money, that's why people live in pollution hotspots like China or in repressed places like Saudi Arabia.

Do you work for free?

And I'm moaning if I demand compensation for my ten days of time they expect me to work for free? If they pulled that in the UK I'd be taking them to court for breaking the law.

You cannot just expect people to work for free.

If your contract expired on the last day of June and they asked you to do ten days summer camp in July would you do it for free? For eight hours a day? I didn't think so.

And anytime someone complains or makes a fair point about a problem in China you come charging in to defend them. Every single time. It's like you're living with blinkers on.

[asiannationmc]

[LarssonCrew]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkers_(horse_tack)

I was using the proper word, not the slang term.

[Spelunker]

[joe30]

[LarssonCrew]

Thank you Joe.

This guy is the same type that will defend Chinese teachers and say we shouldn't complain about how much we get paid.

The students pay a huge 'bribe' to get into this 'exclusive' school which is known as the best in it's province for foreign languages. They expect qualified [dare I say it white] teachers from primary countries [UK USA Aus etc.] and those will years of experience. If the school want that and charge top dollar then they cannot shill out of paying it.

No doubt the principal of this school will have an Audi and a Q7 when I visit and will probably be making money from bribes hand over foot. The Chinese teachers will probably offer Saturday classes to the students and also get generous gifts from parents as well as deals with parents businesses, i.e. cheaper loan for car, buy an apartment for cheap, just to 'help' their kid improve.

Also they will not only be getting holiday pay, but also will receive double or triple pay for spring fest.

I make no bones about it, I'm here to make money. I want to walk away with $30,000 at the years end in my bank, plus have 4 or 5 nice trips away [4 x 1 weeks during Spring festival], and to then invet this in the future, maybe in me, or maybe in a house deposit etc.

[Spelunker]

[quoteI make no bones about it, I'm here to make money. I want to walk away with $30,000 at the years end in my bank[/quote]

Nothing personal, being a pretty good judge of character, I will eat my hat if you do not hail from London or the home counties, the way you take a business like approach to EFL/ESL.

Short of the middle east, if you can make that in China, fair play to you.

[7969]