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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
I feel my mental state getting crushed every day I stay in the UK, 3 years of that just is not an option. The pay in UK for teachers is lousy compared to cost of living, and the paperwork, hours required, awful people, awful weather...it's not for me at all.
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If I had to sum up what was wrong with the UK I'd have to say 'everything, except for the food'. The car thing is just one of my many, many issues with the country. I've always been miserable there, it'll never change, and I refuse to suffer for 3 years. So on that basis I'm looking at my options post-qualification. |
Then own it rather than make petty excuses about how gawd-awful the UK is. Get real by being honest with yourself that your decisions now and in the near future are very likely to hold you back in terms of top professional opportunities years from now and beyond. (I'd love to know how you'd respond to an interviewer's question about why you chose not to stay in the UK for that crucial experience and professional development.) By the way, I'm a single female, and I've taught in Saudi Arabia. And that US State Dept project I was involved in was in a warzone elsewhere in the Mid East --- gunfire, bombs and all. My philosophy is "whatever it takes." |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| (I'd love to know how you'd respond to an interviewer's question about why you chose not to stay in the UK for that crucial experience and professional development.) |
Because over 2 decades in a serious hardship location is quite enough. |
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penguin2004
Joined: 31 Jul 2015
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Joe
I hope the above is a joke. Please rethink how you word things. Is the above really what you'd say in a professional interview context?
I mean, I get that you're not a massive fan of the UK (and hey, you may have a point) and amongst friends it's fine to joke about the 'hardship' of life there. You may want to spend the majority of the rest of your life abroad. That's fine.
But please think about how you come across to an interviewer in an IS by saying it is 'hardship'!
| Quote: |
| Hardship Post: where living conditions are difficult due to climate, crime, health care, pollution or other factors. Employees assigned to such posts receive a hardship differential of between 10 and 35 percent of their salary. A hardship post with security issues, for example in a war zone, may also be a designated hardship post with employees eligible for additional danger pay. |
War. Disease. Danger as a way of life. I mean, the UK may not be paradise on Earth but we're not choking in clouds of smog, ruled by gangland overlords, threatened by the Zika virus or living with a daily bomb threat.
So basically by calling our boring, mildly annoying, safe, grey island a 'hardship' you're implying that either you're incapable of dealing with a bit of annoyance and blow things out of all proportion, or that you're naive as to what the world is really like. Is that the impression you want to give to a potential employer? (I bet you're neither of those things, just a bit flippant).
P.S. I just finished my PGCE & NQT in the UK. A tough couple of years. I'm not even sure I can express the shock of dealing with UK state school kids after working abroad. But it was doable by anyone with a little determination. I learnt so much about the UK school system. I had to show grit to get through. And if I ever decide to apply for international schools - they'll see that. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| penguin2004 wrote: |
Joe
I hope the above is a joke. Please rethink how you word things. Is the above really what you'd say in a professional interview context?
I mean, I get that you're not a massive fan of the UK (and hey, you may have a point) and amongst friends it's fine to joke about the 'hardship' of life there. You may want to spend the majority of the rest of your life abroad. That's fine.
But please think about how you come across to an interviewer in an IS by saying it is 'hardship'!
| Quote: |
| Hardship Post: where living conditions are difficult due to climate, crime, health care, pollution or other factors. Employees assigned to such posts receive a hardship differential of between 10 and 35 percent of their salary. A hardship post with security issues, for example in a war zone, may also be a designated hardship post with employees eligible for additional danger pay. |
War. Disease. Danger as a way of life. I mean, the UK may not be paradise on Earth but we're not choking in clouds of smog, ruled by gangland overlords, threatened by the Zika virus or living with a daily bomb threat.
So basically by calling our boring, mildly annoying, safe, grey island a 'hardship' you're implying that either you're incapable of dealing with a bit of annoyance and blow things out of all proportion, or that you're naive as to what the world is really like. Is that the impression you want to give to a potential employer? (I bet you're neither of those things, just a bit flippant).
P.S. I just finished my PGCE & NQT in the UK. A tough couple of years. I'm not even sure I can express the shock of dealing with UK state school kids after working abroad. But it was doable by anyone with a little determination. I learnt so much about the UK school system. I had to show grit to get through. And if I ever decide to apply for international schools - they'll see that. |
No, I wouldn't say that in an interview. I'd say something about gaining a global perspective on education, teaching students from all over the world, the great resources and opportunities their school is providing, and the great reputation of their leadership team is why I am regretfully looking to leave the wonderful UK and start a new life abroad.
In reality though, what I'm really THINKING is - the UK is a hardship location and I want out. I disagree with that definition of hardship, I feel it comes in many disguises, not just the more obvious ones of a country at war or a country with rampant disease. For instance, most would consider Saudi Arabia a hardship location, and it has none of the issues in that hardship definition. It's more to do with the way of life which makes it a hardship posting, same for the UK.
I do not consider living in the UK to be 'a bit of an annoyance'. I consider it to be a life not worth living. |
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kpjf
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| (I'd love to know how you'd respond to an interviewer's question about why you chose not to stay in the UK for that crucial experience and professional development.) |
Because over 2 decades in a serious hardship location is quite enough. |
It's a bit of a joke you use such language, by describing the UK as a "serious hardship location". Your life in the UK would be pretty comfortable and relatively safe, as Penguin2004 has alluded to, therefore the fact that you actually think this is pretty surprising. The irony is that you're looking to move to China.
| Quote: |
| The difference is though, in Singapore a car isn't mandatory to travel around. In the UK it really is unless you live in London, and even then it's a huge pain not to have one. |
The difference here is that you'll probably not be in SG but in China, a place with a serious pollution issue and from reading the China board, the UK beats China hands down in terms of transport!
http://www.economist.com/news/china/21583273-military-control-airspace-and-risk-averse-culture-threaten-cripple-chinas-rapid-growth
http://www.alertdriving.com/home/fleet-alert-magazine/international/chinas-drivers-among-worst-world |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| kpjf wrote: |
It's a bit of a joke you use such language, by describing the UK as a "serious hardship location". Your life in the UK would be pretty comfortable and relatively safe, as Penguin2004 has alluded to, therefore the fact that you actually think this is pretty surprising. The irony is that you're looking to move to China.
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Comfortable, relatively safe, and absolutely miserable.
We're not going to agree on the level of UK 'hardship' it seems. If someone told me I'd have to live in the UK all my life I'd rather kill myself. I've travelled to a lot of different countries, and only Laos edges it out in terms of 'worst country' status. |
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Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:40 pm Post subject: re: fair points |
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| I would generally agree that toughing it out in the UK for a few years, to then go and teach abroad elsewhere is not too bad. Look hard enough and everywhere has an underbelly....that said, I still say for a single bloke, Asia is far better. Also the UK tends to be machofan, I reckon there will be TV programmes like the Running Man with people being hunted in 10 years or so, such is the main TV channels need to appease the masses with senseless entertainment....I prefer to watch documentaries and films online....each to their own. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I've toughed out 25 years of the UK already, there's not going to be 3 more, I guarantee that. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm... There's a similar thread on the Vietnam forum where the OP contends that luck and who you know will help get him/her into one of those top international schools in the Mid East.  |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I've toughed out 25 years of the UK already |
I don't think you can legitimately complain about 'toughing out' the first 15 years of your life due to the (evidently huge) misfortune of having spent your childhood in the UK 
Do keep in mind that many of us here are involved in employment activities (DOS, hiring committees, other). You're actually far less anonymous than you realize.
Grizzling about the 'hardship' of living in the UK as a 25-year-old isn't making a great impression regarding your ability to work hard to reach goals, your general flexibility, or your overall maturity, frankly. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
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| I've toughed out 25 years of the UK already |
I don't think you can legitimately complain about 'toughing out' the first 15 years of your life due to the (evidently huge) misfortune of having spent your childhood in the UK
Do keep in mind that many of us here are involved in employment activities (DOS, hiring committees, other). You're actually far less anonymous than you realize.
Grizzling about the 'hardship' of living in the UK as a 25-year-old isn't making a great impression regarding your ability to work hard to reach goals, your general flexibility, or your overall maturity, frankly. |
I couldn't agree more. |
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Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:57 pm Post subject: re: grizzling, that is a new one |
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| Grizzling about the 'hardship' of living in the UK as a 25-year-old isn't making a great impression regarding your ability to work hard to reach goals, your general flexibility, or your overall maturity, frankly. |
I wish to take nothing from this debate, I am enjoying it immensely. "Grizzling", never heard that one before, the same meaning as griping?
If the OP is 25 and can't wait to leave the UK, I can only surmise that he must live in a real bad part of a really bad city/town in the UK. I went to China after turning 28....couldn't wait to get back to the UK for the summer, even a summer camp and staying until September did not appeal, I went back for 6 weeks or so, then went back to China. You could say I toughed out 28 years, but I didn't see it as hardship as I enjoyed living in my hometown with my mates, hence how wild horses couldn't stop me from going to the airport to go home for fresh air after my first 9 months teaching. Yeap, some things about China can be good, but life in the UK (presumably with family?) is not really "hardship". Hope the OP finds what he seeks........ |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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griz·zle.
VERB 1.(of a child) cry fretfully: "a grizzling baby" ·
•complain; grumble
I admit that it seems particularly apt in this case, but obviously I'm way past 25  |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I've toughed out 25 years of the UK already |
I don't think you can legitimately complain about 'toughing out' the first 15 years of your life due to the (evidently huge) misfortune of having spent your childhood in the UK
Do keep in mind that many of us here are involved in employment activities (DOS, hiring committees, other). You're actually far less anonymous than you realize.
Grizzling about the 'hardship' of living in the UK as a 25-year-old isn't making a great impression regarding your ability to work hard to reach goals, your general flexibility, or your overall maturity, frankly. |
Whatever, have it your way. I've toughed out 10 years in the UK already and there won't be another 3.
Not enjoying living in the UK says nothing about someones capacity for 'hard work', except that they're not prepared to suffer in a country they hate just for 'professional development'. I make no apologies for this, life comes before work. It always has and it always will.
This isn't particularly relevant to the thread though. I made it quite clear in the OP that staying in the UK, for me, was not an option. I then get a load of people saying to stay in the UK. This will not be happening, and the thread was meant to get an idea of my options on the basis that I would not be staying in the UK. I don't really care if majority opinion is that it's better to remain in the UK, it's my life and I'll leave my home country if I damn well please for any reason I like. Don't really see why I need to justify that to others. |
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Spelunker
Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:51 am Post subject: re: the UK |
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| then get a load of people saying to stay in the UK. This will not be happening, and the thread was meant to get an idea of my options on the basis that I would not be staying in the UK. I don't really care if majority opinion is that it's better to remain in the UK, it's my life and I'll leave my home country if I damn well please for any reason I like. Don't really see why I need to justify that to others. |
Joe, I am not the biggest fan of the uk, what with english soon to be an extinct language in London, the grim weather up north, and high living costs and the tv obsessed culture and so on. Nobody on here is saying you have to stay in the UK, or that is at least how I read it, they are just saying that if you were to raise that to an employer as a reason for wanting to leave the UK, it would actually not go in your favour. Even if you say it is 10 years then, it's still not really a hardship posting...as I mentioned I left after 28, and then returned the following summer out of both necessity and the overwhelming need to get out of China. It's your life and your choice of course, but I think you will find certain things you love about China and hate, just like in any country. Good luck man. |
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