|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| The bear wrote: |
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
If you are working with a CELTA as your sole qualification for teaching university English majors at a Chinese university, it was probably a good thing that you were outsourced to a primary or secondary school. That's where CELTA's and other similar certifications are necessary.
|
I don't know about that. The CELTA is designed around adult education (the 'A' is for Adults). So to say they'd be better off at a primary or secondary school is wrong. |
But it is foundational pedagogy, right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| The bear wrote: |
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
If you are working with a CELTA as your sole qualification for teaching university English majors at a Chinese university, it was probably a good thing that you were outsourced to a primary or secondary school. That's where CELTA's and other similar certifications are necessary.
|
I don't know about that. The CELTA is designed around adult education (the 'A' is for Adults). So to say they'd be better off at a primary or secondary school is wrong. |
But it is foundational pedagogy, right? |
It's graded at level 5 on the OfQual grading, wouldn't exactly call that foundation. Yes, it can be done in a month, but you learn a lot in that month. You'd probably know more about teaching than someone who did an English lit/lan degree.
It definitely beats an average internet 120 hour course. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adventious
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The bear wrote: |
| . Yes, it can be done in a month, but you learn a lot in that month. You'd probably know more about teaching than someone who did an English lit/lan degree. |
Comparing any training to academic study is problematic. And though I think BudP has overextended an argument, his overview of what quality university teachers do in China is descriptive and accurate.
I've been away from the Ivory tower long enough to be mistaken about this, but differences in British and American terminology might be confusing me. An English "lan" degree...as in "Language"? Being American, I don't know what that is. Literature and Writing were the prevalent choices I had many moons ago, but the character of an English degree (communicative) lends its electives to specialization. Education classes were a popular choice. Or, for instance, my degree included graduate courses in Linguistics. Literature is often prescribed to students intending to study Law.
I met a Canadian in Saudi Arabia with an English degree-- Rhetoric and Semiotics. What we would accomplish together was far and away beyond what topics I could entertain with CELTA "graduates".
Training is not academic study. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| adventious wrote: |
I met a Canadian in Saudi Arabia with an English degree-- Rhetoric and Semiotics.
|
I always wanted to spend a couple of weeks teaching (or at least discussing) semiotics, but the only time that I could give it any time was during English week when I was told to give lectures on "Western Culture". I think I had much greater leeway in China than I might have had in Saudi Arabia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adventious
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| I think I had much greater leeway in China than I might have had in Saudi Arabia. |
Beyond a doubt.
But neither of us were lecturers-- like the vast majority of westerners, we worked in a foundation program, strictly ESL method. What we eventually accomplished involved metrics/examinations.
It's my opinion no western academic can thrive in Saudi Arabia unless their fields are medicine (medical training), engineering (mineral extraction), desert agriculture, desalination technology, and archeology. Outside of that? Too much regression.
But NomadSoul has posted to this board areas (law) our developing university didn't have. It's not a small country. There's lots I simply didn't experience. In my first year, foundation programs in my neck of the woods were all medical and engineering students, but my job was ESL...
The Kingdom is deliberately slow in its development-- resistance to second languages in the earlier grades in particular. When I left in 2013, high schools were opening up a little. The Kingdom is generations from sanctioning what you do in China. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The bear wrote: |
It's graded at level 5 on the OfQual grading, wouldn't exactly call that foundation. |
The only reason it is graded at level 5 is the entry requirements. A high school graduate cannot take the CELTA if I remember correctly. However, there is no requirement for previous education experience for the one month course, which I agree would make it a foundation level course. Doing the DELTA would push past foundation. All of this of course in the realm of teaching English only, not teaching in general.
One thing to consider outside of this topic, and back to the farming out of more qualified teachers, is that the school may have already gotten extra tuition money from the Uni students for a foreign teacher. That is money in the bank, and they can throw any foreign teacher in the class to fulfill that. When they are farming out, they want to get more money, so they will take the best teachers they have to the negotiating table to get the most money. Education today is a business, not so much about learning. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
