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Living In A Foreign Land
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject: Living In A Foreign Land Reply with quote

For many of us in this business, part of the deal is pending long periods living abroad. Some people find that difficult to handle and never adjust.

I was reminded of this when one of my colleagues form student days had to spend an extended period in China in his 60s as part of a programme his employer was setting up. He had never spend extended periods abroad, apart from package holidays. He could not do it and kept asking me, "What is the s secret ?"

I had to confess that I do not know !

I feel that everyone should travel in youth and that it is good to spend a "Wanderjahr" somewhere weird and exotic.

Comments ?
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think that there is one key element that those of us who are successful at 'abroad' have: relatively high tolerance of ambiguity.

There are lots of other things that play a role, like ability to/interest in learning languages, tolerance of diversity, minimal attachment to the food and culture of home, and others, but IMO, tolerance of ambiguity is the common thread that runs through all the other qualities that help people to be reasonably comfortable living 'abroad.'

And I'm not so sure that any of the above can be taught or learned...
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Hod



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the "secret" is to reset your mind before getting off the plane. Too many people compare their host country with their homeland or previous posting, and there'll only be one loser there.

I remember being on the Butterworth - Penang ferry in Malaysia (pointlessly added country to avoid confusion with all the other Butterworth ferries in the world). A young western female approached (a common occurrence even now) and asked why I was in Malaysia. It turned out she was an English teacher in Bangkok and wasn't at all happy to be on a visa run to Malaysia when she knew "all about Thailand but not this dump". She hadn't even set foot on Malaysian soil but declared it a dump anyway.
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bograt



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't really compare living abroad nowadays with what it was like pre-internet. Anyone can manage it nowadays with skype, downloads, youtube, facebook etc...Plus globalisation in access to food
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Local" has been destroyed.
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A combination of what spiral and Bogart said.
Spiral's keeps the fatigue down and Bogarts allows you to manage that fatigue. I've seen a lot of people in Mexicotry to go full native, and they tend to burn out quickly. I've taken on quite a bit ofmexican-ness but I occasionally close the door to my house, and binge watch US TV shows while eating potato chips.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
For many of us in this business, part of the deal is pending long periods living abroad. Some people find that difficult to handle and never adjust.

I was reminded of this when one of my colleagues form student days had to spend an extended period in China in his 60s as part of a programme his employer was setting up. He had never spend extended periods abroad, apart from package holidays. He could not do it and kept asking me, "What is the secret ?"

I had to confess that I do not know !

I feel that everyone should travel in youth and that it is good to spend a "Wanderjahr" somewhere weird and exotic.

Traveling abroad certainly falls short compared to actually living as an expat.

How do your daughters fare? Like me, your girls probably adjusted well to living overseas as third-culture kids.

I was born outside the US, and by age 14, I'd lived in five different countries (as a US military dependent). That experience was a huge plus to overseas employers but has always been perceived as "too foreign" here in the US unless I meet others with similar experiences. Moreover, I always feel like a stranger in the US -- like I will never adjust, despite finishing my middle/high school education and living here for a few decades. Heading abroad to work felt natural to me, and not surprisingly, my culture shock was minimal and nothing like the reverse shock I experience when returning "home."

That said, I know some adults who have the soul of a nomad and seem to find their calling overseas in their later years.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My eldest never forgave me for leaving Saudi Arabia. Money, Shopping Malls and an American School ! What more should a young girl want ?
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MotherF wrote:
A combination of what spiral and Bogart said.
Spiral's keeps the fatigue down and Bogarts allows you to manage that fatigue. I've seen a lot of people in Mexicotry to go full native, and they tend to burn out quickly. I've taken on quite a bit ofmexican-ness but I occasionally close the door to my house, and binge watch US TV shows while eating potato chips.


haha, yeah, what she said. I am not sure I qualify as an expat, being half Mexican and half Irish, but having lived many of my ¨formative years¨ (6-17then 19-26) but aside from that most of the rest of my life in Mexico. I think you have to just do what you like, what feels natural. There are aspects of both the US and Mexico that I enjoy, so I take those as part of me and leave¨the rest. I think regardless of where you live, if you are open minded you will find aspects of that culture that you enjoy and feel comfortable with, and aspects that you don´t. One thing for sure, if you constantly compare wherever you live to ¨home¨and ALWAYS feel that ¨home¨is superior in every way you will never be happy anywhere. I know a couple of people who are married to Mexicans who are like that and they are not happy living in Mexico. So I think you need to be adaptable and optimistic and open to new experiences to live in another country. I feel pretty equally comfortable in both countries, but there are aspects of both that I like and indentify with and aspects of both that I dislike and reject. So I think if you can look at each aspect of a place on a more personal level you can take it or leave it and be comfortable wherever you live.
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Dr X



Joined: 04 Jul 2016
Posts: 84
Location: Everywhere

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
My eldest never forgave me for leaving Saudi Arabia. Money, Shopping Malls and an American School !
What more should a young girl want ?

A boyfriend ..... but this is impossible and haram in the Magic Kingdom. Smile
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She was too young for boyfriends. In fact where we loved - on Saudia City in Khalediyya there were such phenomena amongst the older kids.
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iknowwhatiamtalkingabout



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There isn't really a secret. Not in the way that you can really prepare someone for it or tell them what to do. It's just not for some people. The only way to find out is to try.

I've lived and worked in the UK, Europe and Asia. It's not 'easy' as claimed above. Of course technology makes it easier to keep in touch with people, watch sport from home, local tv shows etc. But it's not the same as living at home and the fact that it's not easy is shown by the number of people who still can't really hack it. That's not a criticism of those people, living abroad and away from people and places and things you know just isn't for everyone.

People who say it's easy are just following the inevitable pull of time. Anyone who has been doing something longer than someone else has to tell the new person that they've either missed out or got it really easy compared to the past. Music, sport, travel, anything you care to name. People do it all the time.

Fortunately, I find it quite easy. I have good relationships with family and friends at home and I like the country I come from. But I can honestly say I have never had serious homesickness or been troubled in any way by my long-term absence from home.

You do need to be able to accept that things will be different and done differently. Sounds obvious, but doesn't seem to have occurred to some people. Getting frustrated at the inefficient ways your new local bank operates will not change anything or improve your day. Complaining loudly in bars or polite company about how disgracefully the local culture treats its women or minorities is not going to change the world, make you friends or improve your day.

Some of it also comes down to motivation. If you are moving abroad because you're bored living at home, then it might be a good idea. But consider why you're bored. If you're moving abroad out of curiosity, then it's probably a good idea. If you're moving abroad because you're unhappy, then it's probably a bad idea. I've met quite a few people who have seemed surprised that the magical curing powers of 'abroad' haven't cured their misery.

Basically, it's easy and the right thing to do for some people, but not for others. The best way to find out is to try.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
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Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've met quite a few people who have seemed surprised that the magical curing powers of 'abroad' haven't cured their misery.


Good one:-) You DO knowwhatyou'retalkingabout.

We've all known lots of these folks. They seem to forget that one thing they can't leave behind at home is their own tendency towards unhappiness or discontent.
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou



Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I moved around a lot when I was a kid. My father remained employed by the same company his entire working life and his employer sent him to several parts of the U.S., each at least 600 miles from the previous one. Consequently, I attended many schools, some of which were private. I learned pretty fast that the differences among people in my own country were quite vast, and the language, while intelligible, had its own code in many cases. (When I moved to the mid-south, I didn't know that "Well, bless your heart" was a putdown, even when said sweetly).

Food was different. Slang was different, the terrain was different. Most importantly, each neighborhood was different from the previous one that I had lived in because with every move came an increase in my family's affluence. I don't think my parents ever became accustomed to that last one. I never did. In my head, I was still a lower, lower middle class kid.

It's an overused term, but it applies: I was always on the outside looking in. Always being the new kid was difficult, but it toughened me in a way. It also made me a bit more aware of other outsiders. I think I became more tolerant and sensitive to the needs and wants of others.

Then, in the mid-nineties, I became disillusioned regarding the rewards systems in employment. My father worked his butt off to get to where he arrived in life, and I believed that if I did as my father did, I'd climb closer to the top of the heap too. I didn't, and I saw others' professional lives stagnating despite their efforts at bettering themselves by furthering their education at night, sometimes juggling two jobs in order to accommodate schedules and support families.

In the mid-to-late nineties, I arrived at some sort of realization that I had the wrong (or perhaps an accurate) view of how things worked in the U.S.. Something had to change, and it probably would not be me. I took one last shot at a degree thinking that more "education" would lead me to the pot of gold.

Nope.

My arrival in China the first week took on a sort of drug-induced feeling of absurdity and amusement. Teaching class brought me back to reality and to something with which I was familiar. Something was different, though. The students were interested in what I had to say. (I didn't realize how well they listened until a few years after I had moved on and returned to attend the delivery of their their senior theses. In my history and culture classes, I started the class off with the statement "Language is a primary transmitter of culture". One of my former students started his presentation with that very same statement.

Life in China isn't all peaches and cream for me. Not by a long shot. What has kept me going is the fact that I am appreciated in China. Until I am too old (something that is quickly approaching) I will be employable in China. In decent public universities, students want to talk to me. They want to learn as much as I do. For every miserable story I have told about life in China, I have ten stories about acts of kindness from strangers who emerged from the crowd then disappeared.

To make a long story interminable, I admit that my life in China is a never-ending ( and sometimes difficult) growing experience. Perhaps I won't ever feel content with fitting in. Oh, I blend in with a crowd, and I can be another yahoo sitting at a desk pushing paper just like the next guy, and I don't find myself at continual odds with society in the U.S or in China. It's more like being the clam at the bottom of the aquarium watching the fish swim overhead. (Yes, I know. I likened myself to a bottom feeder, something that I'm not. I'll think of a better analogy eventually).

One thing that I have learned is that no matter where one lives, and no matter who one is, everyone has the very same basic needs and wants. In China, the common man appreciates it when you acknowledge his need for affirmation of a job well-done, the acknowledgement that he, too is struggling. In the U.S., the same is true, but it's difficult to recognize that appreciation from others.

No single occurrence experienced before arriving in China can prepare one to deal with its realities except gaining a fluent command of the language accompanied by a lot of money, and access to influential people.

But then, that is a completely different road that I took, one that never presented itself. One that I never looked for.
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Mr. Kalgukshi
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Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two inappropriate postings have been deleted. This is not the board on which to post and trade insults. Future inappropriate postings will result in permanent bans to include ISPs.
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