Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Teaching ESL now, but maybe better to teach Physics
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
simon44



Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:11 am    Post subject: Teaching ESL now, but maybe better to teach Physics Reply with quote

I've been teaching ESL in south-east Asia for many years, and am currently and happily teaching in Myanmar.

I want to teach well into my 60's, assuming the Grim Reaper doesn't come to visit.

However, teaching ESL is hardly an 'Ace up the sleeve', and I have to compete for future jobs with all the pretty, young, female grads... (As a male teacher, I don't look very pretty in a frock).

Before I moved to Asia, I worked for many years in the electronics industry, and have a Physics-subject MSc from London University and a First Class Honours BSc in Electronics & Comms. Engineering from another London polytechnic.

Google suggests to me that there is a global shortage of Physics teachers, and pay rates seem quite high, even if I do not actually have a teacher's licence in Physics.

Ask a child to describe a typical Physics teacher and they will probably say something like 'male, old, boring, tweed jacket with elbow patches, bad BO'.

Some of those descriptions (2 actually) fit me to a T!

I am too old to go back to the UK to retrain, (I would no longer qualify as a home student). But there are online 'revision' courses to help those with engineering degrees to get into teaching Physics.

What's the advice of the forum? If I want to stay in gainful, teaching employment in Asia into my 60's, should I continue as an ESL teacher? Or should I pay to retrain as a Physics teacher and then be able to fill a role as Physics teacher or Physics-with-ESL teacher?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kazpat



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Kazakhstan

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I work as an admin in secondary education. My background is in social studies teaching and I transitioned into ESL / EFL before moving into a leadership role at a school. Physics teachers are the most in demand teachers that we recruit for. Based on my experience you will never go hungry as a qualified physics teacher. Having an ESL background will make you even more attractive because of your ability to quickly pick up sheltered instruction and other strategies for working with ELLs. Out of the ten or so guys that have worked for me I would say that at least half were engineers or some other profession before retraining for secondary ed. With the focus on application in the classroom as opposed to simply theory their various work backgrounds and experience are highly useful. I wish I had the aptitude to get licensed in physics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Londonlover



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 90
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Student behaviour issues, whether it is aggression and verbal abuse or the steady drip drip effect of teenage low level disruption (chatting, inattention and messing about) which can make the enterprise demoralising, unrewarding and pointless, is something you may wish to consider, if you are looking at global positions for Physics teachers in high schools. This is certainly relevant to secondary school teaching in the U.K.
I don't know if secondary/high school teaching is that much better in other countries around the world in terms of teenagers' behaviour.
Certainly, speaking as a former secondary school teacher, teaching EFL to adults who are keen and want to be there and behave themselves so you don't have to be a 'professional teller offer' and crowd control manager has certainly been an experience of absolute joy in comparison!!!! - even when I was earning less than half my secondary school salary. Happiness has no price.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
simon44



Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Student behaviour issues, whether it is aggression and verbal abuse or the steady drip drip effect of low level disruption (chatting, inattention and messing about) which can make the enterprise demoralising, unrewarding and pointless, is something you may wish to consider.


I already have several years of teaching experience in south-east Asia at teenage and vocational student level. Never found it a major problem. Teens are the same across the world, but those in some so-called first-world countries seem to be the worst Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Londonlover



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 90
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems far better to stay in South East Asia and teach Physics there then, if you know the students aren't bad. Other places/regions may have more 'issues' to consider.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to your ESL/EFL experience a short course in pedagogy / education would not be out of place and would get you into schools that would otherwise not look at you. They are not that onerous, are not that expensive and are available in SE Asia as distance learning, blended learning or face to face.

Even picking up an M.Ed based on coursework and a master project rather than thesis based is doable on a weekends in class basis (but won't be cheap (6500 quid) or a PGCEi (again about 6500) by distance from a UK uni.

One of those coupled with your EFL experience and ability to teach physics will keep you going for as long as you want to work.

As to age...l I am also pushing 60 and picked up my latest masters degree with graduation last semester. I also work in SE Asia where the average EFL teacher earns about 650 quid/month (9000/year) and last year my taxable earnings were about 28k quid.

It can and will pay off in the short and long run despite your age. The biggest obstacle is just "getting it done".

.
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joe30



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're doing a PGCEi, do it from Nottingham. It's only £3,500 rather than the £7,000 charged by Sunderland, and it's also a much easier course. With Nottingham you only have to write essays, you don't have to do observed teaching practice - and I speak from currently being on a UK PGCE now - the observed teaching practice is by far the hardest element of the course.

Nottingham over Sunderland easily.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
simon44



Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

If you're doing a PGCEi, do it from Nottingham...


I was offered a place on the Nottingham course some years ago, but alas -I didn't have the funds to start the course. I guess Nottingham would not view a new application in a good light.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Londonlover



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 90
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have thought that the quality of a good PGCE is reflected in it having an observed teaching practice component.
The reason some PGCEs might be considerably cheaper is because those that lack assessed teaching practice might well be seen to have less status and credibility in the eyes of any future employers.
People are thrown off PGCE courses in the U.K. because they cannot teach.
It seems strange to me to do a teaching qualification where there is no assessment of teaching.
I know that many MA TESOL courses, however, do not have a teaching component
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Londonlover



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 90
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

simon44 wrote:
Quote:

If you're doing a PGCEi, do it from Nottingham...


I was offered a place on the Nottingham course some years ago, but alas -I didn't have the funds to start the course. I guess Nottingham would not view a new application in a good light.


Money talks!! If you have the money to pay for the course, they will eagerly snap you up again whether you backed out previously or not. Higher Education is more and more a business in the U.K. But see my previous comment on the merit of doing a PGCE that has no teaching practice component.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joe30



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londonlover wrote:
I would have thought that the quality of a good PGCE is reflected in it having an observed teaching practice component.
The reason some PGCEs might be considerably cheaper is because those that lack assessed teaching practice might well be seen to have less status and credibility in the eyes of any future employers.
People are thrown off PGCE courses in the U.K. because they cannot teach.


And um...that's precisely why you don't want a course with observed teaching practice, if the qualification is going to otherwise be the same. Both Sunderland and Nottingham award a PGCEi, and neither gets you QTS. So with that in mind, it makes sense to do the one that you're more likely to pass (Nottingham), the one that involves less work (Nottingham), and the one that is cheaper (Nottingham).

Doing the Sunderland one just means you're doing a bunch of extra work, paying more money, and taking more risk for no tangible gain.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Londonlover



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 90
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I accept the fact that since neither certificate actually confers NQT status, this would make a difference to the decision of which one to pursue based on cost.
But really, both of these institutions should be offering a PGCEI qualification which does confer NQT status and make sure it does include observed/assessed teaching practice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joe30



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londonlover wrote:
I am sure that, given the choice, we would all love to do a PGCE course that did not involve all that stress of observed teaching practice.
( I did my PGCE in the U.K. well over 20 years ago now, and an integral part was observed teaching practice, which was a stressful but also invaluable part of the course They and I needed to know whether I was a good enough teacher).
I suppose my point was more that for new teachers (but yes, perhaps even for experienced EFL teachers) potential future employers may well not consider the Sunderland and Nottingham certificates in the same way, despite them both having the PGCE title. This is because, they would prefer to employ the candidate who brings evidence (in their qualification) that they have gone through a rigorously assessed teaching practice and have come out the other side as having been judged by education specialists to be a competent teacher. That would also be a great confidence booster for a new (and even not so new) teacher.
Certainly, for a beginning/inexperienced teacher, in taking a PGCE, I would think it highly recommended that the course included observed teaching practice.


I have huge doubts as to whether most employers will know the difference between the Sunderland and Nottingham PGCEi qualifications. To most HR departments, a PGCEi is a PGCEi. Just like it's not all that likely an MA TESOL transcript gets scrutinised for evidence of the exact coursework taken, your PGCE isn't going to be looked at that closely.

Let's put it this way - with BOTH courses, the top tier employers will be initially closed to you as you won't have QTS. This means for your first job you're going to be looking at lower tier international schools or upper tier ESL employers. Neither of those are likely to look into the course that closely since these are the sort of employers that can't afford to be too fussy about qualifications as they're not paying at the upper end of the market. And within that tier, there's a lot that won't know the difference, or even care about the difference if they knew.

The £3,500 you save by not going to Sunderland is a tangible benefit as is the certainty that you'll pass providing you hand the essays in. This is worth a lot more than the utility you get if someone happens to scrutinise the exact content of your course.

You shouldn't always take the more 'prestigious' qualification. Ease of the course and the fees payable are perfectly valid factors to take into account.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
simon44



Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another route to get licensed teacher status in the UK, without ever having taught in the UK. I posted about this route a few years ago, and it is likely to be the route that I'll follow, (since being a licensed teacher can open more doors than not).

The solution is to take the Diploma in Education and Training Level 5 DTLLS by distance learning. This 100% online course also requires that one records 100 hours of in-class teaching, as well as an extra 8 hours of observed teaching. (So here is the in-class component that the PGCEi lacks).

The course costs about $1,500. Having completed the course, which can be done in a few months, one can then apply to SET in the UK to be registered as a QTLS teacher (Qualified Teacher Learning & Skills), which is legally the same as QTS.

In case you think that this is a 'fake' route to getting licensed teacher status, SET and the course provider have both confirmed to me that this route to QTLS for a teacher working outside the UK is 100% legal.

Bear in mind that this gets you QTLS status, but if you want to work in a UK state school (who does?), you'll still need to do some UK in-class practicum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are not going back to the UK and don't worry / want to teach in a UK state school then the point is moot.

In Asia, as an example, anyone who can teach high school Physics classes is in high demand.

Having a university issued certificate in teacher training (whether PGCE, PGCEi, DipT, Dip.Ed, etc) coupled with a bachelor and master degree in a field related to physics/engineering/maths, even without home country licensure, IS SUFFICIENT to get your foot in the doors and get hired at all but the top level international schools (where home country licensure and experience are both required).

24-30 credit hours of classwork is sufficient (about 8-10 courses of about 45 hours duration each over 2 semesters). Typical required courses include the likes of "principles of teaching, assessment and evaluation, curriculum development, & classroom management" with additional optional classes / papers to fill out the required 24-30 credit hours.

Staying employed will depend on how well you do after you are hired.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China