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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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 Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Thanks Expat Luke and 1SG Welsh |
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| Jefe wrote: |
Decisions made guys. Cambodia first. I am only looking for 10hrs of work a week max anyways while I finish school Nice to be retired!
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OK, if that's your decision then good luck to you. However, without a degree and a CELTA, please be aware that you'll be looking at around $10 a teaching hour in Cambodia. If you are OK working for that then that's fine. |
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Jefe
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:51 am Post subject: 1SG Welsh |
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LOL, thanks for your permission 1SG (kidding, a little anyways).
Nice thing about being retired, is that you already have an income.
Offer for a beer is still open. Will shoot you a message when I arrive. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
Kurtz, you don't seem to be getting it. A job ad lists the minimum qualifications as an advance filtering system. But those are not the minimum requirements to land the job. A multitude of other factors can go into that, such as who you know, who your references are, how well you can sell yourself on your CV or in your interview, how much experience you have, and how much the school needs to fill.the position.
I don't know about you, but I always would apply to positions which I didn't meet the minimum requirements when I first started teaching, and I often got call backs or job offers.
I do commend you for blindly thinking that those job ads which you quoted are set in stone requirements. I'm sure you've made many recruiter's jobs easier. But surely you cant be naive enough to think 6 hours of observed teaching would trump multiple years of experience. Especially to a career path recruitment manager who likely has multiple degrees in language and education... At the end of the day, to someone like that, a CELTA won't make much of a difference. |
Luke, I made my initial comment about the OP without knowing his experience. I think those comments are fair in that it doesn't matter if Cambodia or Vietnam.
True, the OP has a lot if experience. However, I was talking in more general terms as I thought you were. Someone might have multiple years of teaching experience, but might actually have no idea what they are doing unless they have received basic English language teaching such as a CELTA.
Someone might have years of experience, but if they had been working in second rate schools all their life, there is a strong chance that they might actually suck as a teacher.
The CELTA, despite its intense nature and flaws, teaches important aspects of teaching such as needs analysis, classroom management etc., some of which I still use today. A school which doesn't require a CELTA or equivalent as a bare minimum isn't too concerned with teaching standards IMHO.
If you beg to differ, then that is yout choice. |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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ExpatLuke, to be fair you seem to be talking quite a lot of tosh. You come out with all these statements about being a recruitment manager and not a single school in Vietnam wanting a CELTA/Trinity cert and when provided with clear evidence to the contrary you just come out with, "Nah, they don't." Do you really know what you are talking about? Then you accuse Kurtz of not getting it!
Telling people that they can apply to jobs without the minimum quals is also a bit stupid in my honest opinion. In this day and age almost every Tom, Dick and Harry has a TEFL cert of some kind and more are getting higher level quals, too. Requirements are actually getting more stringent almost everywhere. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Lets cut to the chase. Time for a reality check.
In Cambodia it is a simple matter of paying a fee to get a "business visa" and go to work as a "teacher". Do a border hop when necessary and stay out of politics to stay alive and out of jail.
The OP does NOT meet the requirements for a proper visa to be a teacher in Vietnam.
The CELTA / TESOL / TEFL cert issue is largely a non-issue. The degree is the requirement for legal work and the OP does not have one although with CAMBRIDGE ESOL and UCLES now being involved in mainstream education in Vietnam that may well change there.
He is white and does have a pulse so he will find work.
Illegal work abounds. Dive in and have at it. Just be aware that there are consequences for loud foreigners when someone makes a quick call to the local immigration office and they come to pay you a visit.
Your rights as an American do NOT follow you around the globe and your embassy won't do shit to help you when you get busted while working illegally on the local economy. You'll be just another white, illegal, migrant worker (not so much different that the Mexican fruit pickers in California and Texas).
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creeper1
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 481
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:47 am Post subject: |
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But typically what happens when someone is busted?
Is it a case of a bribe being paid or someone being thrown in prison?
I'm not in Vietnam but from what I can see working without the proper permits is extremely common. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Like I said... illegal work abounds.
It is not usually an issue until you piss off the wrong person.
When you do piss off the wrong person however you will get to see the inside of an immigration detention center until you find the funds to pay for your deportation OR sit until you have "earned" enough time served to pay for your "deportation".
If you have the funds available you can usually be "deported" within a few days with no more harm than a red stamp in your passport.
If you don't then you may sit there for weeks or longer while you serve your "punishment" and await the funds to get rid of you.
DO NOT confuse the system with anything that involves "Due Process" or "rule of law".
This is DIFFERENT than committing visa fraud (issuing false documents and lying on your visa application). Visa fraud can (depending on the bribes paid) land you a multiple year stint in a SE Asian prison with all that prospect entails. The US consul will come to visit you a couple times per year during your incarceration. Lucky you.
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
ExpatLuke, to be fair you seem to be talking quite a lot of tosh. You come out with all these statements about being a recruitment manager and not a single school in Vietnam wanting a CELTA/Trinity cert and when provided with clear evidence to the contrary you just come out with, "Nah, they don't." Do you really know what you are talking about? Then you accuse Kurtz of not getting it!
Telling people that they can apply to jobs without the minimum quals is also a bit stupid in my honest opinion. In this day and age almost every Tom, Dick and Harry has a TEFL cert of some kind and more are getting higher level quals, too. Requirements are actually getting more stringent almost everywhere. |
It's not "stupid." It's a simple fact of almost any job. If you do a little research on hiring practices, you'd find that people who don't meet the minimum jib requirements in a job ad get hired all the time. This is because job ads only serve as advance screening processes to filter the hundreds of applications an employer receives when they post an ad.
Now of course some things are non negotiable, but things like years of experience and what kind of TEFL you hold are not. A CELTA is a 4 week course. I personally find it hilarious that some people seem to think that a school Manger who likely has multiple degrees related to EFL work will somehow rate one four week degree above another. 4 weeks isn't enough time to make someone an effective teacher. I'm sorry but that's a fact. I've interviewed dozens of fresh CELTA graduates and they've been awful. And I've interviewed people who taken an online TEFL course and they've been amazing.
If you don't apply to a job because you only have 2 years experience and a different name on your TEFL certificate, when the ad states 3 years are required with a CELTA, you're limiting yourself. So until you start working with people who actually do hiring at schools, you shouldn't call anyone stupid about a topic you have no knowledge of. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:10 am Post subject: |
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All too true.
But there are also lots of people out there who don't value an education enough to get one but somehow think they are educated and qualified enough to give one.
The OP's position almost universally seems to come from that case - people who don't have an education thinking they are eminently qualified to give one. Pedagogy doesn't enter into their vocabulary.
Donald for Prez - YEA !!!
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: |
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To be honest, I didn't get the feeling the OP really fell into that group. He doesn't have his BA yet, but is getting it, and has plans to get his MA and CELTA.
Not the most traditional route, but at least he's following the law requirements of each country he wants to go to. |
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Emdii
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 18
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks Expat Luke and 1SG Welsh |
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| Jefe wrote: |
Decisions made guys. Cambodia first. I am only looking for 10hrs of work a week max anyways while I finish school Nice to be retired!
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If you're looking to work at ACE, they generally hire teachers to work at least 18 hours. However, you may be able to negotiate with them. |
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