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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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 Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Many good points noted above. I totally agree that establishing your reputation comes FIRST and that takes time. Running around aimlessly taking on private students without an overall game plan is what leads to many of the problems mentioned earlier in this thread. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Jmbf wrote: |
As I said, language centres have their place, but if you do the sums and think longer-term you will quickly see what I'm talking about. I'll give figures for Hong Kong as that's what I'm familiar with. Language centre work max's out at around HK 300 / hr (and many pay less). An experienced NET can charge at least HK 500 / hr for private lessons.
If we assume 10 hours per week at a language centre that's:
HK 2,000 given up in commission per week
HK 8,000 given up in commission per month
HK 96,000 given up in commission per year
If we assume 15 hours per week at a language centre that's:
HK 3,000 given up in commission per week
HK 12,000 given up in commission per month
HK 144,000 given up in commission per year
As you can see, it just doesn't make sense to give up that much income to commission unless you don't have a choice.
Regarding your comments about capital outlay, many tutors teach from home. So there's no big payments to be made for rental, contract and utilities costs etc etc. Materials and resources expenditure pale in comparison to income levels, especially over time (I spent around 1K on new books / materials last month vs 115K income). Marketing can be expensive, but then that's only required to build up your initial student base. Once that's done, word-of-mouth referrals take over. I myself haven't had any marketing costs for years. |
Actually The BC pays 435 HK an hour for part timers with no expense on marketing or books, blocks of classes, no hanging around trying to build up a client base or dealing with cancellations etc... but whatever works for you. Also IMO classes are a much nicer environment for teaching. One to ones are much duller and usually require more detailed planning |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
Actually The BC pays 435 HK an hour for part timers with no expense on marketing or books, blocks of classes, no hanging around trying to build up a client base or dealing with cancellations etc... but whatever works for you. Also IMO classes are a much nicer environment for teaching. One to ones are much duller and usually require more detailed planning |
I think we can agree that the British Council is not typical of most normal language centres. It represents close to the peak of what one can expect when dealing with language centre work. There was a poll recently on one of the HK teaching forums on language centre pay, the vast majority of those polled reported hourly rates between HK 200 - 300.
With regards to lesson cancellations etc etc, I think I've covered that previously. For a professional tutor, these issues can be handled.
Classes a nicer environment for teaching? Depends what you are comparing it against. I don't think there's any classroom that is nicer than my own dedicated teaching room. I have all my own resources on hand, state of the art IT equipment, climate control with a good air filter system, a nice espresso machine etc etc. If you are talking about tutoring in someone's living room, or a noisy coffee shop, then maybe.
1-1's being duller and requiring more detailed planning? I call rubbish on this one. I couldn't disagree more. Then again, a large part of this is down to what you are used to. |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Jmbf wrote: |
Obviously we are not going to see eye to eye on this but I'll continue to address your points as this conversation is quite interesting.
Capital: I thought I'd addressed this already. What capital is required? We are not talking about setting up a formal language centre with all its associated costs. We are talking about tutoring in homes (yours or the students). There is a plethora of free materials available online which can be referenced / printed out. Grammar books / worksheets are cheap. You can buy simple English games / puzzles cheaply in most bookstores or online. Your upfront capital costs for private tutoring are very very limited. You can probably budget 100 - 200 RMB and that would be enough to get you started. |
IIRC you mentioned before that you moved to a larger and more expensive area in the centre of town because that's where the student base is - and that tutors who try and run businesses in cheaper areas don't generally do so well. There's a big upfront cost of being forced to live in an up market area
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| Business ability: I don't think you need a lot of business ability to be a good tutor. The skills you need are more organisational in nature. Try to be the best teacher you can, improve your skill set, be professional and often you will be approached directly for work. I know A LOT of tutors, I wouldn't say they have very good business ability, rather the successful ones are simply good teachers, approachable and friendly yet organised. Those are some of the key traits that you need. |
It'd be fair to say many ESL tutors are not good teachers. They're average or poor. Mediocrity or outright poor performance is tolerated a long time in a language centre. If you're running it by yourself your students will soon leave.
Many people are not concerned with improving their skill set and getting good, since they're in this game for the lifestyle of living abroad, not for a love of education. These guys - and make no mistake, there's more of these sorts than the 'I love teaching' type - would be overall much better off in a language centre
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Work Ethic: I don't think that language centre work is significantly more or less intensive than private tutoring but it's down to what you get used to. Planning and preparation time for experienced tutors is very minimal (as has been noted already in this thread). Being able to teach the way you want to, to have control over your schedule and who you teach, without the frustrations that often come with centre work (poor materials, frustrating management, challenging colleagues, random work hours that are out of your control etc etc) is a big relief and needs to be taken into account. |
I'd argue it was significantly more work. For a start, a great many ESL teachers aren't 'experienced' - and or this group, having everything planned for them saves a lot of time. I don't think being able to teach whatever you like is a plus point since its significantly easier to follow someone else's instructions than to invent the instructions yourself.
Poor materials and management can be voted against with your feet. Random work hours can be dealt with by having a backbone and saying 'no, I'm not doing those classes at that time'.
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Let's take 5 students at 300 RMB each as an example. That works out to 1,500 RMB per week. To match that at many language centres you would have to work at least 10 hours per week. Yes, with those 5 hours of private tutoring you may have some commuting and prep time but with organisation and experience those can be managed down to reasonable levels. As your number of students grow, this problem is exacerbated. 10 private students would work out to 3,000 RMB per week or 20 hours in a language centre etc etc. |
At least should be changed to 'at most' since certainly in all major cities the baseline is 200rmb an hour. I'd say the true hourly hit you take is 50% in most cases (for example, 300rmb vs 200rmb). That's the case in Thailand too (700 baht vs 500 baht).
Growing a student base is a big problem as has been noted by many teachers on this thread. It takes time, and time is money. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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"...It'd be fair to say many ESL tutors are not good teachers. They're average or poor. Mediocrity or outright poor performance is tolerated a long time in a language centre. If you're running it by yourself your students will soon leave.
Many people are not concerned with improving their skill set and getting good, since they're in this game for the lifestyle of living abroad, not for a love of education. These guys - and make no mistake, there's more of these sorts than the 'I love teaching' type - would be overall much better off in a language centre..."
Amen. Most of the FTs I've met in China aren't good class room teachers, never mind their inability to tutor. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| 1-1's being duller and requiring more detailed planning? I call rubbish on this one. I couldn't disagree more. Then again, a large part of this is down to what you are used to. |
Have you ever taught adult classes? If so you'd know that you can get them to talk to each other while you just listen and interject when someone says something interesting (if you want) With one to ones you are required to react to everything your student says, no matter how boring/inaccurate/indecipherable etc...You can't tell a one to one student that you haven't been listening to them for the last 5 minutes because what they've been saying has been too boring/unintelligible but in an adult class you can just pretend what those students said didn't happen. I guess either you haven't taught adult classes before or all your adult students have been great company - which seems unlikely. I'd hazard a guess though that the way you blow your own trumpet ad nauseum on here you'll probably claim all your one to one adults are amazing people and a joy to teach so you can probably disregard all I've said and good luck to you. |
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