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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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 Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
| How much work do you expect for 6000rmb a month, lol. If you pay bottom of the barrel, that's the sort of teacher you'll attract - which is perfectly fair and reasonable. |
Then don't take the job. Go get a higher paying job at an international school.
Can't compete against all of those MSc's and MA's?
Then go to EF. What? Can't qualify for that either? Ooooh. Something is wrong. Must be the pay. Uh huh. uh huh.
Joe30, you don't get it, and you might want to reconsider your motives for coming to China. A little introspection might do you a lot of good. |
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rioux
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
Yep, sounds about right. If I want good food, I don't go to McDonalds for it.
Less pay means less quality. It always has, it always will, and it's perfectly normal to expect this. |
Then you have the students that have the temerity to complain when they are given grades such as 85, 88, 90, etc. when in reality many of them should fail. The level of so-called English ability sucks here. Incredible.
In terms of the McDonald's example:
It's like having a cashier there throw a fit that you didn't give a large enough tip for him/her when in reality they shouldn't be tipped at all! |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| joe30 wrote: |
| How much work do you expect for 6000rmb a month, lol. If you pay bottom of the barrel, that's the sort of teacher you'll attract - which is perfectly fair and reasonable. |
Then don't take the job. Go get a higher paying job at an international school.
Can't compete against all of those MSc's and MA's?
Then go to EF. What? Can't qualify for that either? Ooooh. Something is wrong. Must be the pay. Uh huh. uh huh.
Joe30, you don't get it, and you might want to reconsider your motives for coming to China. A little introspection might do you a lot of good. |
Or take the job but put little effort in. There's no law that says you always need to try your hardest at work. I for one only put effort in when I feel I'm been renumerated appropriately. Dont expect me to put in long hours doing planning and marking when the pay is crap.
FWIW, I have got a job at an international school starting next year. And I'm getting paid many multiples of 6000rmb a month! That school will receive my full commitment- because they've paid properly for it. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:26 am Post subject: Stress |
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| Quote: |
| FWIW, I have got a job at an international school starting next year. And I'm getting paid many multiples of 6000rmb a month! That school will receive my full commitment- because they've paid properly for it. |
Congrats on getting a juicy contract (on paper, at least) at an International School - with the main caveat being the extra stress and expectations which are normally par for the course when teaching kids, especially in an 'International School' type environment where parents pay big coin for their progeny to receive our wisdom.
This means the stress levels can be high, and that is something we have to be prepared for.
I taught at International Schools in Turkey and Honduras, and they were both not positive experiences, but not wanting to put you off, good luck anyways.
As you alluded to, in life there should be no 'free lunches' and with the extra pay common at International Schools in China (pay from 20,000 - 30,000 yuan being typical here) expectations can be high, as well as prep time.
Ghost in China |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, no free lunches - and that includes the employer too (i.e. you don't get 100% unless you pay for 100%). |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Or take the job but put little effort in. There's no law that says you always need to try your hardest at work. |
No, there isn't. But there's something called "work ethic" and taking a bit of pride in what you do. Apparently these notions haven't been imparted to everyone.
| Quote: |
| Dont expect me to put in long hours doing planning and marking when the pay is crap |
Nobody at a university, or the lower paying jobs, is required to work long hours. But there's still an expectation to produce decent work. A few extra hours of planning isn't too much to ask.
| Quote: |
| Yes, no free lunches - and that includes the employer too (i.e. you don't get 100% unless you pay for 100%). |
Many people on this forum are doing what equates to part time work. Few are overworked. You should be putting in 100% each and every hour you're there. Is this such a revolutionary concept? |
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joe30
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Alien abductee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Or take the job but put little effort in. There's no law that says you always need to try your hardest at work. |
No, there isn't. But there's something called "work ethic" and taking a bit of pride in what you do. Apparently these notions haven't been imparted to everyone.
| Quote: |
| Dont expect me to put in long hours doing planning and marking when the pay is crap |
Nobody at a university, or the lower paying jobs, is required to work long hours. But there's still an expectation to produce decent work. A few extra hours of planning isn't too much to ask.
| Quote: |
| Yes, no free lunches - and that includes the employer too (i.e. you don't get 100% unless you pay for 100%). |
Many people on this forum are doing what equates to part time work. Few are overworked. You should be putting in 100% each and every hour you're there. Is this such a revolutionary concept? |
Nonsense, pay should directly affect the quality of your output. These are simple concepts and I'm honestly shocked some people don't understand them. If I only pay $1000 for a car I should expect poor performance and breakdowns. If I pay $1 for a meal I'm not expecting high quality cuisine. You rarely get something that is both cheap AND good - the workplace should be no exception.
You all not heard from the term 'minimum wage = minimum effort' before?
I have no 'pride' in working, and I don't believe hard work for the sake of it is a virtue. Show me the money or I ain't doing nothing. |
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twowheel
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 753
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Whatever the rationale for not putting a small bit of effort into the job may be, at the end of the day, the students are the real losers in such a situation.
twowheel |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
| Alien abductee wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Or take the job but put little effort in. There's no law that says you always need to try your hardest at work. |
No, there isn't. But there's something called "work ethic" and taking a bit of pride in what you do. Apparently these notions haven't been imparted to everyone.
| Quote: |
| Dont expect me to put in long hours doing planning and marking when the pay is crap |
Nobody at a university, or the lower paying jobs, is required to work long hours. But there's still an expectation to produce decent work. A few extra hours of planning isn't too much to ask.
| Quote: |
| Yes, no free lunches - and that includes the employer too (i.e. you don't get 100% unless you pay for 100%). |
Many people on this forum are doing what equates to part time work. Few are overworked. You should be putting in 100% each and every hour you're there. Is this such a revolutionary concept? |
Nonsense, pay should directly affect the quality of your output. These are simple concepts and I'm honestly shocked some people don't understand them. If I only pay $1000 for a car I should expect poor performance and breakdowns. If I pay $1 for a meal I'm not expecting high quality cuisine. You rarely get something that is both cheap AND good - the workplace should be no exception.
You all not heard from the term 'minimum wage = minimum effort' before?
I have no 'pride' in working, and I don't believe hard work for the sake of it is a virtue. Show me the money or I ain't doing nothing. |
I don't know any ESLers who are on "minimum wage." From what I've seen the lowest paying jobs only ask 12 or 14 hours a week and pay anywhere from 6,000-9,000yuan a month. These teachers don't pay rent or have commuting costs. The net pay is way above minimum wage, anywhere. The main point: it doesn’t matter what the worker is being paid. Employers have an expectation of how the worker is going to perform, and every right to coach the worker to complete tasks properly. Or terminate the worker if the worker won’t comply. “Deontological ethics” are practices you have a duty to perform. If a worker agrees to a wage, minimum or otherwise, then they're expected to put out the best effort when clocked in and collecting money. If the money isn’t right, don’t take the job. “Minimum effort for minimum wage” is the attitude of a loser. |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 527
Location: Kuala Lumpur
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| twowheel wrote: |
Whatever the rationale for not putting a small bit of effort into the job may be, at the end of the day, the students are the real losers in such a situation.
twowheel |
Very true. Students are the ones that gets shorted in the end.
I know some of the lecturers we had in university were only on short term contracts and were the lowest paid instructors on campus. But they still put out a good effort and for that I'm thankful.
Last edited by Alien abductee on Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:20 am Post subject: |
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“Minimum effort for minimum wage” is the attitude of a loser.
Agreed;
Could you really look at a class of freshers and think 'I ain't being paid enough to make an effort?' |
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twowheel
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 753
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:27 am Post subject: |
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It really does become a vicious circle.
Some unshaven chappie from the Midlands rocking up to the teacher's podium wearing an Iron Maiden t-shirt and jeans and "teaching" on the fly will in turn warrant such a response from the students: "well, if Chappie Laoshi isn't putting in the effort, why should I?"
twowheel |
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twowheel
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 753
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Part-time full time work?
Full-time part time work?
12 to 14 hours a week, but woe to me for having to put in a few extra hours of planning per week.
twowheel |
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rioux
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
Nonsense, pay should directly affect the quality of your output. These are simple concepts and I'm honestly shocked some people don't understand them. If I only pay $1000 for a car I should expect poor performance and breakdowns. If I pay $1 for a meal I'm not expecting high quality cuisine. You rarely get something that is both cheap AND good - the workplace should be no exception.
You all not heard from the term 'minimum wage = minimum effort' before?
I have no 'pride' in working, and I don't believe hard work for the sake of it is a virtue. Show me the money or I ain't doing nothing. |
So true.
I read somewhere (I think on Dave's) about being a security guard how the workers complained that management wanted "White House Security at welfare prices". |
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rioux
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:45 am Post subject: |
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"Students are the ones that gets shorted in the end."
Then management ought to hire teachers who are certified and/or with MA's. They won't do that because they want to play it on the cheap. Throw in not having "conversation" classes composed of 50 or more people. Many times management also does this because they don't have to pay for another teacher (or two). |
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