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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| I've also talked with teachers in places like the UAE who are still teaching full-time, but have moved from classrooms of children or adults and language mills to university positions, where the focus is more on lecturing, teaching language learning theory, or teacher training. These people usually hold very high credentials and are working on their first or second PHds. Their jobs are stable, and pay fairly well. |
"Classrooms of children or adults and language mills" doesn't accurately describe the Gulf given that the majority of full-time English teaching jobs in the region are in university foundation year programs and generally require a TEFL-related degree (usually an MA for direct hire). Ditto for positions teaching children, which require experience, licensure/certification, and a degree, all specific to the teacher's subject area. Except for the UAE, nationals in the GCC hold teaching jobs in the public schools. But this is why some job seekers find it difficult to break into the Gulf TEFL market. Moreover, the governments of Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait do not recognize degrees and other qualifications that included any online/distance coursework or study, and the UAE rejects online k-12 teaching licenses. Then there's the push for qualified nationals to replace expats.
My experience was all in the Mid East where I went from teaching EFL and ESP in university/college programs to teacher training and consulting on a US government project. I no longer teach but used my rather short teaching career as a stepping stone to move into the instructional design side of adult learning and development here in the US, which was my plan from the start. So no, I wouldn't do things differently. |
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mote.
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: |
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I am in my mid 30s, and after having been a musician who has managed to travel on tour more than your average muso I really wanted to keep travelling, but with the option of being able to stay a lot longer in the countries I visit.
I chose teaching English as the career that could potentially open up the world for me, and I am almost finished my Master of Applied Linguistics (TESOL) and ready to embark on new adventures 
It's true that now I am realising that largely English teaching is not seen as a particular prestigious or well-paying job... and maybe that will start to become a problem in a few years... All I know is I am still keen for adventure and new experiences, so that's where I'm at now |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Teaching English as a career |
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[quote="ExpatLuke"]
There are multiple routes people can go with this, and I'm curious about others' experiences, and what you personally feel is the best way to go about it. quote]
I don't think I fall into any of the categories. Maybe I do but my perspective is different.
After working in the armed forced I found it was a bit like a travelling prison after a while. I got to travel but it was very regimented and I didn't have a say in where I travelled to. Travelling the world, having freedom and independence with options to do things on my own terms is what interests me rather than money. As long as I have enough to be comfortable and do nice things then I am happy. This is why I have decided to got with TEFL career choice. I have recently finished an Open Degree (BSc Open) with the Open Uni and start my CELTA in February 2017 to give myself a good foundation in this career choice I am changing to. I then plan on becoming pretty good at what I do and seeing where that takes me. I might come back to the UK to do PGCE or I might look into DELTA. Will see how the next 3 to 5 years go.
Any opinions or thoughts on my plans are welcome. I would also be interested to hear from anyone who has head anything positive or negative on Open Uni degrees, especially the open degree which I obtained.
Last edited by reblair79 on Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
Moreover, the governments of Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait do not recognize degrees and other qualifications that included any online/distance coursework or study, and the UAE rejects online k-12 teaching licenses.
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Do you have a source or some additional info on this, Nomad? I am particularly interested as I have an Open degree with the Open University UK. The thought of this not being recognised in the Middle East region (or anywhere else) is worrying considering the hard work I put into this degree over fours years while working full time also! I hope it is not falling in the category you mentioned above. Regards, Ray. |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| reblair79 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
Moreover, the governments of Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait do not recognize degrees and other qualifications that included any online/distance coursework or study, and the UAE rejects online k-12 teaching licenses.
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Do you have a source or some additional info on this, Nomad? I am particularly interested as I have an Open degree with the Open University UK. The thought of this not being recognised in the Middle East region (or anywhere else) is worrying considering the hard work I put into this degree over fours years while working full time also! I hope it is not falling in the category you mentioned above. Regards, Ray. |
This has been the standard in certain ME countries for quite a while, unfortunately. |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| santi84 wrote: |
| reblair79 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
Moreover, the governments of Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait do not recognize degrees and other qualifications that included any online/distance coursework or study, and the UAE rejects online k-12 teaching licenses.
. |
Do you have a source or some additional info on this, Nomad? I am particularly interested as I have an Open degree with the Open University UK. The thought of this not being recognised in the Middle East region (or anywhere else) is worrying considering the hard work I put into this degree over fours years while working full time also! I hope it is not falling in the category you mentioned above. Regards, Ray. |
This has been the standard in certain ME countries for quite a while, unfortunately. |
So just to confirm, some Middle East countries do not recognise a UK Open University degree? If so, does anyone have any information to support this? Thank you. |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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This is the list of universities that the UAE will consider distance degrees from. The OU isn't on the UK list. Even when the OU is recognised as an institution, a degree with an Open classification may not be accepted.
This isn't a new situation, it has been the case for some time.
http://www.mohesr.gov.ae/En/E-Services/Pages/Electronic_Recommended_Institute.aspx |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply. I don't think I would go by that link too much to be honest. A reason why for example was that for recommended Uni's in Scotland, only Edinburgh was listed. To not include St Andrews or Glasgow Uni is an indication the list is not much use. I appreciate the info though and I am not trying to argue with information I simply don't like.
I just think that a hard earned degree with the OU (who are relatively high on the UK list of universities) while balancing full time work, as well as 2 years teaching experience (I may look at teaching over there in two years) would earn me an interview with a few places. I also know teachers in Bahrain and Doha who are unaware the OU degree would be an issue.
I have read some S.Arabian job postings with the requirements stating online degrees are not eligible, but the UK Open Uni degree, I don't think is what they are referring to. From what the argument has provided so far, I have not read a strong case to support that the Middle East in general do not take a UK Open Uni degree.
It's an interesting discussion point here and would appreciate anymore information to add to the discussion. |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="reblair79"]
Thanks for the reply. I don't think I would go by that link too much to be honest. A reason why for example was that for recommended Uni's in Scotland, only Edinburgh was listed. To not include St Andrews or Glasgow Uni is an indication the list is not much use. Also, it appears that list on the link is just a list of the top 100 universities in the world.
source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/05/04/top-100-world-universities-by-reputation---the-list-in-full/
I appreciate the info though and I am not trying to argue with information I simply don't like. It's an important issue though and good solid evidence is what I would like to see if possible.
I think that a hard earned degree with the OU (who are relatively high on the UK list of universities) while balancing full time work, as well as 2 years teaching experience (I may look at teaching over there in two years) would earn me an interview with a few places. I also know teachers in Bahrain and Doha who are unaware the OU degree would be an issue.
I have read some S.Arabian job postings with the requirements stating online degrees are not eligible, but the UK Open Uni degree, I don't think is what they are referring to. From what the argument has provided so far, I have not read a strong case to support that the Middle East in general do not take a UK Open Uni degree.
It's an interesting discussion point here and would appreciate anymore information to add to the discussion. |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply. I don't think I would go by that link too much to be honest. A reason why for example was that for recommended Uni's in Scotland, only Edinburgh was listed. Also, it appears that list on the link is just a list of the top 100 universities in the world.
source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/05/04/top-100-world-universities-by-reputation---the-list-in-full/
I appreciate the info though and I am not trying to argue with information I simply don't like. It's an important issue though and good solid evidence is what I would like to see if possible.
I think that a hard earned degree with the OU (who are relatively high on the UK list of universities) while balancing full time work, as well as 2 years teaching experience (I may look at teaching over there in two years) would earn me an interview with a few places. I also know teachers in Bahrain and Doha who are unaware the OU degree would be an issue.
I have read some S.Arabian job postings with the requirements stating online degrees are not eligible, but the UK Open Uni degree, I don't think is what they are referring to. From what the argument has provided so far, I have not read a strong case to support that the Middle East in general do not take a UK Open Uni degree.
It's an interesting discussion point here and would appreciate anymore information to add to the discussion.
p.s. Sorry, I have edited this a few times as I am making a few mistakes and trying to get used to making a posting here including quotes! Bear with me! |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| reblair79 wrote: |
Thanks for the reply. I don't think I would go by that link too much to be honest. A reason why for example was that for recommended Uni's in Scotland, only Edinburgh was listed. Also, it appears that list on the link is just a list of the top 100 universities in the world.
source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/05/04/top-100-world-universities-by-reputation---the-list-in-full/
I appreciate the info though and I am not trying to argue with information I simply don't like. It's an important issue though and good solid evidence is what I would like to see if possible.
I think that a hard earned degree with the OU (who are relatively high on the UK list of universities) while balancing full time work, as well as 2 years teaching experience (I may look at teaching over there in two years) would earn me an interview with a few places. I also know teachers in Bahrain and Doha who are unaware the OU degree would be an issue.
I have read some S.Arabian job postings with the requirements stating online degrees are not eligible, but the UK Open Uni degree, I don't think is what they are referring to. From what the argument has provided so far, I have not read a strong case to support that the Middle East in general do not take a UK Open Uni degree.
It's an interesting discussion point here and would appreciate anymore information to add to the discussion.
p.s. Sorry, I have edited this a few times as I am making a few mistakes and trying to get used to making a posting here including quotes! Bear with me! |
If you're going to work in certain ME countries, you're going to have to realize that the system doesn't work the same way as it does in the west. It could be spelled out on paper with an official stamp and not matter. It's slow and chaotic in comparison (which is part of the ride). If you want more evidence, visit the Saudi forum and read countless of rejected applicants. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| reblair79 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Moreover, the governments of Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait do not recognize degrees and other qualifications that included any online/distance coursework or study, and the UAE rejects online k-12 teaching licenses. |
Do you have a source or some additional info on this, Nomad? I am particularly interested as I have an Open degree with the Open University UK. The thought of this not being recognised in the Middle East region (or anywhere else) is worrying considering the hard work I put into this degree over fours years while working full time also! I hope it is not falling in the category you mentioned above. |
You can certainly apply, although it will be obvious to Gulf employers familiar with OU that your degree was completed online. But it doesn't matter which university --- Harvard, Oxford, etc.; it's the medium of instruction (i.e., online/distance study) that's the issue. This information gets verified by your university registrar as a requirement of your degree authentication process when you apply for a work visa. Anyway, this has been discussed numerous times in the Mid East forums. |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| reblair79 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Moreover, the governments of Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait do not recognize degrees and other qualifications that included any online/distance coursework or study, and the UAE rejects online k-12 teaching licenses. |
Do you have a source or some additional info on this, Nomad? I am particularly interested as I have an Open degree with the Open University UK. The thought of this not being recognised in the Middle East region (or anywhere else) is worrying considering the hard work I put into this degree over fours years while working full time also! I hope it is not falling in the category you mentioned above. |
You can certainly apply, although it will be obvious to Gulf employers familiar with OU that your degree was completed online. But it doesn't matter which university --- Harvard, Oxford, etc.; it's the medium of instruction (i.e., online/distance study) that's the issue. This information gets verified by your university registrar as a requirement of your degree authentication process when you apply for a work visa. Anyway, this has been discussed numerous times in the Mid East forums. |
Thanks Santi and Nomad. I will have a look at the Middle East forum and other avenues also. It's not urgent to me as it's a big world out there and ME is not on my priorities but it's still not nice to know a door is locked if I want to go in it! Regards, Ray |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| reblair79 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| reblair79 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Moreover, the governments of Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Kuwait do not recognize degrees and other qualifications that included any online/distance coursework or study, and the UAE rejects online k-12 teaching licenses. |
Do you have a source or some additional info on this, Nomad? I am particularly interested as I have an Open degree with the Open University UK. The thought of this not being recognised in the Middle East region (or anywhere else) is worrying considering the hard work I put into this degree over fours years while working full time also! I hope it is not falling in the category you mentioned above. |
You can certainly apply, although it will be obvious to Gulf employers familiar with OU that your degree was completed online. But it doesn't matter which university --- Harvard, Oxford, etc.; it's the medium of instruction (i.e., online/distance study) that's the issue. This information gets verified by your university registrar as a requirement of your degree authentication process when you apply for a work visa. Anyway, this has been discussed numerous times in the Mid East forums. |
Thanks Santi and Nomad. I will have a look at the Middle East forum and other avenues also. It's not urgent to me as it's a big world out there and ME is not on my priorities but it's still not nice to know a door is locked if I want to go in at some point! Regards, Ray |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| reblair79 wrote: |
| Thanks for the reply. I don't think I would go by that link too much to be honest. A reason why for example was that for recommended Uni's in Scotland, only Edinburgh was listed. Also, it appears that list on the link is just a list of the top 100 universities in the world. |
Like it or not the MOE are the ones who get to say yes or no.
They do get to say, "We don't accept any degree with an on-line component," if they so choose and they do get to pick which universities they will and will not accept.
They don't care if their list is out of date or not to your liking and they are not the only case.
| reblair79 wrote: |
I appreciate the info though and I am not trying to argue with information I simply don't like. It's an important issue though and good solid evidence is what I would like to see if possible.
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Good, solid evidence? If you won't accept the Ministry of Education (who needs to support your visa application) then it won't matter. There are always people who try to go up the down escalator.
| reblair79 wrote: |
I think that a hard earned degree with the OU (who are relatively high on the UK list of universities) while balancing full time work, as well as 2 years teaching experience (I may look at teaching over there in two years) would earn me an interview with a few places. I also know teachers in Bahrain and Doha who are unaware the OU degree would be an issue. |
Now for the really bad news.
An OU degree is just a degree. Hard earned or not it is just a degree and not particularly high up on anybody's list other than your own.
In the real world of TEFL (meaning outside of Anglophone and/or EU countries) your experience (or lack thereof) won't mean much. You will have the same opportunities and wages and the next bloke with 10-years, 2-years or 0-years of experience.
Whinging to the MOE in some foreign coutry about the "value" of a "hard earned degree" won't do you any good either. They don't care. There are more than enough applicants who have their brick and mortar degree + CELTA and for what they usually pay inthe ME they can get usually get applicants with valid teaching credentials or a related masters.
| reblair79 wrote: |
I have read some S.Arabian job postings with the requirements stating online degrees are not eligible, but the UK Open Uni degree, I don't think is what they are referring to. From what the argument has provided so far, I have not read a strong case to support that the Middle East in general do not take a UK Open Uni degree. |
Online degrees (OU and otherwise) are often rejected by the bodies (immigration, education, labor, etc) issuing permits and visas and not just in the Middle East. They don't need to justify it to you or anyone else and the fact that you are from the UK won't matter. It is their country, their rules and they get to say aye or nay depending on the strength of their morning coffee and nothing in the UK rule book will make any difference. Welcome to the real world.
Arguing with those of us who are here in the TEFL world and who are doing the job is pointless. We are just the messengers telling you how it is living on the local economy instead of being supported by Her Majesty's Armed Services. Shooting the messenger won't change the message.
The best advice anyone here can give you is to look at your chosen countries and meet their requirements.
The requirements are usually not negotiable since they are usually visa/immigration/MOE rather than employer requirements.
When you find a country that accepts what you have AND you are willing to work for what they offer then get on a plane and go for it.
I wish you good luck. Bring an open mind when you buy your plane ticket. You may have a bit of a steep learning curve when you land in the local economy wherever you go.
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