Job Discussion Forums

Itsme · Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 624 Location: Houston, TX

I was wondering if the majority of employers pay for the paperwork and medical tests that need to be performed in China to obtain a working visa. If arriving on a tourist visa and having it changed while there, what are the costs involved and, once again, do the employers foot the bill?

Voldermort · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 597

In my case I was promised that my agency would arrange and cover the cost of all the legal documents once I arrived in China.

This was all a lie, I ended up having to pay 400 Yuan RMB for the medical test, then out of my first month salary they deducted a further 700 Yuan to cover the cost of the Resident permit and Expert certificate. Of course I argued this, but all my contract said was "we will organise your legal status in China". So unless is stipulates they will pay for it, you may end up having to pay yourself.

Incidently, I have yet to recieve My Resident permit and Expert Certificate after 3 months. They did however put a Z visa in my passport, which was only valid for 2 days. My advice is, arrange it all yourself, don't let them have an excuse to keep you waiting around. I am currently trying to leave my agency, but without legal documents it is proving to be somewhat of a challenge.

Itsme · Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 624 Location: Houston, TX

I am going off of what was included/omitted from the contract sent via email. It is my understanding that most contracts state that the school will be responsible for the costs incurred for the paperwork. I decided to ask for a revision of the contract to also include this, namely that the school will be responsible for paying for all the medical exams and paperwork for working in china, and if arrangements can not be made in time the school will be responsible for airfare out of the country if deportation is necessary.

The contract I received also did not have the clause about a breach in the contract causing the defaulting party to be required to pay X amount of money.

Thanks!

Chris_Crossley

You MUST make sure that your school promises to PAY for your new working documents once you enter the country. It is no good their saying that they will merely make arrangements for you to get them. Yes, I'm sure they will, but it'll be a shock to you if they then tell you that you should pay for them yourself.

I am not sure if it is a legal requirement for schools to pay for the papers, but it certainly IS a legal requirement for you to have them in the first place, otherwise the Public Security Bureau might make things difficult for you. Expatriates who do not have the correct working papers are technically breaking the law if they work in China on a tourist visa.

I was exceedingly fortunate inasmuch as I entered China on an L (tourist) visa and the school I am with now not only PAID for my Z (working) visa but also PAID for my Foreign Expert Certificate and Foreigner Residence Permit, even if I approached the school only AFTER, not before, I had entered the country.

Unfortunately, not everyone can benefit from working at a school where they do everything they are expected to do by the book and make every expatriate's life both easier and happier. The number of posts I've read in this forum and other forums (or "fora" for the Latin grammar purists!) on the subject of either not getting the correct documentation at all or else being forced to pay for them themselves clearly indicates that a lot of schools are deliberately avoiding the time and expense of paying for the papers when they should be doing their duty; it is, after all, the law - it is not a matter of choice.

My advice is that, if any school does refuse to budge on the issue of who pays for the papers, then look around for another school to work at, get an undertaking that this new school agrees to PAY for the papers, and then LEAVE your current school. The management of such schools - in all likelihood, cowboy outfits, to be sure - deserves to have teachers turn their backs on them if they treat them this way. It is totally unacceptable behaviour.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Normally, public employers do foot the bill for your medical exam in the country (I don't know if they also foot your bill in your home country if you undergo a medical exam there); in addition they should pay for your visa and related docs, but of late there have been some alterations.
Some schools want to save money; they pay for a single-entry visa, with the difference for a multiple-entry visa going at your expense. This new policy struck me for the first time last year, and the univversity is most adamant when you argue with them: we pay for a single-entry, and you pay for the multiple-entry difference! A big difference.
Private schools often try to pass the buck, but it should be their responsability, really. I have never had to pay until now.

Itsme · Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 624 Location: Houston, TX

Is it cheaper to get passport photos in China or before arriving? I had to pay about $8 for two!!! photos. I have read that I might need up to a dozen photos and would rather get them there if it is cheaper.

JimmyJam · Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:57 am Post subject: L visa yet working

I've got three friends who are now in big trouble since their employer/agent doesn't want to release their passports. They still have an L (tourist) visa but the employer lets them teach from one kindergarten school to another. So, it seems, they are at the mercy of their employer/agent.
They learned of the job through a recruitment agency in their home country who promised them of something sure. But when they arrived here, many inconveniences happened: they lived with the headmaster's family (no bathroom).. they share one room... and other culture shocks.. they asked if they can take a shower somewhere, they were brought to a common bathouse @3yuan per person.. they were shocked and did not expect the sight..
their agent move them from one school to another. when they start to ask about contract and visa stuff, the reply is always tomorrow.. tomorrow.. they worked but no pay yet... and the visa is still L, which their agent renews monthly..
they have called the embassy about it.. pray everything goes well..
i guess it's more difficult if your status in china depends on your agent's mood swings.. (is it OK to mention company names here?)

denver · Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 76 Location: PANAMA

about the photos... the US passport photos usually cost US6.00 to US8.00
This is because of the high quality paper and the development process.

On the other hand, I had a regular developer print 4 JPGs on a 4x6" photo page, charged me US1.00
Total was 2.00 for 8 photos.

At the Chinese Consulate, I offered the cheap photo first, they said no problem. So I kept the high quality ones just in case.

Cheers

denver

denver · Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 76 Location: PANAMA

JimmyJam · Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:19 am Post subject: agents

it seems that many local businesspersons are making money out of recruiting foreign teachers then place them in different schools... as to your prospective employer, well, i guess, they can promise you a lot of things to get you but the problem is they can easily change things.. i'm not saying this will happen but it can.. two companies to avoid in Jilin Province who are known to hold your documents: TianShuo and TianYuan... they can change their names but they always have these words TianYuan or TIanShuo.. (educational services, volunteer organization, foreign language school etc...)
An anecdote: one teacher was asked "do you have enough funds to go back home? the teacher was surprised because she thought before she left her country that her employment is final because she has been interviewed and stuff.. but the boss in china didn't seem to like her when she saw her.. good thing her friends helped her find a new employer.. she's employed now in a university. this just happened two weeks ago..
Denver, you're in for a lot of surprises!! Good Luck!!

LaoMa · Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 13

Some companies in China respect contracts, and others do not. The Western idea that a contract is set in stone once signed simply doesn't carry over. If you try to argue with an employer that your contract promises this or that once you're in country, the employer is likely to argue that things have changed a bit bhut that it's no big deal. ....If it's not a big deal, then don't worry. Some flexibility is indeed called for. If it is a big deal, you should be ready to put your foot down. The conclusion will still be a matter of negotiation, and you may not end up with precisely what was specified in the contract, but you'll end up much better off than if you had remained silent.

You've got a couple of possibilities that will help out on this score...both of which you should check out BEFORE accepting a position and coming to China. 1) Work for a Western company. That's a pretty tall order because there aren't too many operating in China. At least your generally better off with an institution that recruits a fair number of teachers for its own schools or internal classes. If you are sent over by an agent under the understanding that you'll work for whomever they specify, you're asking for trouble. There is very little oversight in such situations. 2) Ask to speak to one or more current teachers in the organization. This will give you a sense of what really goes on with regard to the contract.

Like a previous poster, my organization does a great job of providing all expenses once in country, and they have enough connections to get all the necessary visa extensions, etc, without requiring teachers to travel or waste money. This can be an important factor once you're in-country and on a tight budget.