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Iloveamma
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 68
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 Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:30 pm Post subject: Private/Public School Question |
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So, I am curious...since there seems to be a lot of variation I am wondering if there are any private/public schools which actually provide the lesson plans? Or is that too good to be true?  |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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'Yes' to your last question as far as public schools are concerned. You'll get a textbook - maybe - of varying quality.
A textbook doesn't constitute a lesson plan - especially for Oral English because they don't provide essential ESL things like warm up and warm downs and a process of moving students from read dialogues to extempore conversational speech. Planning for assessment and marking is also neglected and you have to fill that in yourself. This is more 'semester planning' than 'lesson planning', but it still has to be done.
There seems to be a sense among Chinese that 'Hey you speak English you can teach it'.
Even in commercial area there seems to be a helplessness.
I'm writing a textbook for a Chinese publisher and it has taken weeks to get answers on age of student, length of class, average class size.
These would have been part of the conceptualization of the project - one would have thought.
That said, one of the online providers guarantees all resources provided. The lessons are only 30 mins, rather than the 2x50min classes at tertiaries where you really do need to plan. |
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AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Just the textbook can constitute a lesson plan, it just depends how much extra effort you want to put into your work.
Open the book the first lesson, teach the first couple of pages. Second lesson, teach pages 3-4, then pages 5-6 etc. Lessons won't be world class but if you're in ESL just to have fun abroad and the job is just what you do for the cash then it could work. I've never seen an ESL'er fired for being a 'bad teacher', only for stuff like turning up drunk or not turning up at all. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| AV15 wrote: |
Just the textbook can constitute a lesson plan, it just depends how much extra effort you want to put into your work.
Open the book the first lesson, teach the first couple of pages. Second lesson, teach pages 3-4, then pages 5-6 etc. Lessons won't be world class but if you're in ESL just to have fun abroad and the job is just what you do for the cash then it could work. I've never seen an ESL'er fired for being a 'bad teacher', only for stuff like turning up drunk or not turning up at all. |
I have neither the disdain for my professional standards or my students to follow your 'advice'. |
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Iloveamma
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your replies!
Non Sequiter you wrote..
That said, one of the online providers guarantees all resources provided. The lessons are only 30 mins, rather than the 2x50min classes at tertiaries where you really do need to plan.
What online provider do you mean?
I also have a bit more self respect and integrity to put a little more effort into what I would teach. However, I have not at the moment created lesson plans on my own for English teaching, although I have several years experience.
I have taught theater in the USA for one school year...for which I did do lesson plans...so I am thinking maybe that could be a good way to go also...It seems the pay is a lot lot more. Still, not sure if I can make the big move. But I am feeling it all out.
I would like to go with a solid place who provided detailed stuff to teach..not just a textbook. Maybe that is not feasible. Just for times saving and hassle, etc. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:13 am Post subject: |
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This the outfit link I've looked into. There may be others.
https://www.dadaabc.com/teacher/job
As far as lesson plans are concerned I've usually had say all freshmen from one or two majors. They all cover the same material so max two lesson plans required i.e the larger classes take longer to get through the material and lag behind the smaller classes.
The lesson planning isn't just the day-to-day stuff. You have to get mid-term and end-of-semester assessments in there somewhere. The prep for the assessment has to be pre-announced, if you are say setting a dialogue task. This complicates at least two classes.
Where I had to originate materials it was a fag the first semester but after that a class set of something was just 'grab and go'.
Some items were used over 6 semesters and many hundred students.
I note your ideal 'resources in place' wish, but the public school and uni situation in China isn't like that from my experience.
Worse still is assurances that these things are in place, but when you turn up they aren't.
This can happen in individual classes where you planned to use the OHP but find without warning that you've been reassigned to a room that doesn't have one. |
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AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
I have neither the disdain for my professional standards or my students to follow your 'advice'. |
It wasn't advice, it was commentry. Lesson plans can be very minimal since standards are very low in the ESL field. That's a fact. It all depends what you want to get out of your time abroad. If OP wanted to kick back, chill out, and do the minimum, that is certainly an option for him, and it's disingenous to pretend otherwise. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Does this mean a surgeon who goes to a 3rd world country to do operations for low pay is entitled to do shit work? |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:20 am Post subject: |
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I currently work at a public primary school (teaching Science). I have curriculum complete with lesson plans to follow (as do the English teachers). I tend to source my own resources (worksheets, vids, etc.) at times and adjust the lesson plans to make them more effective.
I'm lucky at my school, as many do not have a set curriculum. You might just get a text book to teach from.
It's the teachers responsibity to create and deliver effective and interesting lessons in my opinion.
As for AV15's comments, well what can I say, there are too many selfish and immature teachers here who couldn't care less but to do the bare minimum...plenty turn up drunk also...for me to work like this would be sad and soul destroying but each to their own. |
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AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
| Does this mean a surgeon who goes to a 3rd world country to do operations for low pay is entitled to do shit work? |
Lol at comparing a surgeon with some guy in a mickey mouse outfit holding up flashcards. You've been in ESL too long if you think these two 'professions' are even slightly the same.
It's a fact that just teaching from the textbook is perfectly acceptable for 99% of employers out there. It's also a fact that many people wish to minimise their working hours since work is something we do for money, not for enjoyment (otherwise it'd be called a hobby). |
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AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| getbehindthemule wrote: |
It's the teachers responsibity to create and deliver effective and interesting lessons in my opinion. |
Disagree completely. If you're going to hire untrained staff (i.e. no teaching qualifications) then the onus is on you, the employer, to provide all the tools and the plans neccesary for the lessons to be effective. Since those who haven't had any professional training won't have a clue what constitutes effective lesson planning anyway, and will be completely at sea without proper plans.
The teachers only responsibility is to turn up on time and follow the plans the employer has set out. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| AV15 wrote: |
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
It's the teachers responsibity to create and deliver effective and interesting lessons in my opinion. |
Disagree completely. If you're going to hire untrained staff (i.e. no teaching qualifications) then the onus is on you, the employer, to provide all the tools and the plans neccesary for the lessons to be effective. Since those who haven't had any professional training won't have a clue what constitutes effective lesson planning anyway, and will be completely at sea without proper plans.
The teachers only responsibility is to turn up on time and follow the plans the employer has set out. |
It's a combination. The teacher should try to maximize the lesson for their class, after all they're the ones that see the students week in and week out, and should know them better than someone who sets the curriculum but has never seen the students. However, there should be something to work from for the teacher, not just a room full of students and a blackboard.
I've worked at all kinds of schools, from places where they had a detailed curriculum and supplementary materials for teachers but encouraged teachers to experiment and see what works for their class, to places like where I am now.
My current employer literally gave me a classroom with fixed rows of desks, a computer, and projector for 32-39 students in a class. That's all. No textbooks, no resources, no internet in the classroom. Students don't even have room to mingle, or turn around for group work.
So...although I lesson plan and try to make my lessons interesting, there's only so much you can do. And, I'll admit, working in this environment does demotivate me. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| AV15 wrote: |
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
It's the teachers responsibity to create and deliver effective and interesting lessons in my opinion. |
Disagree completely. If you're going to hire untrained staff (i.e. no teaching qualifications) then the onus is on you, the employer, to provide all the tools and the plans neccesary for the lessons to be effective. Since those who haven't had any professional training won't have a clue what constitutes effective lesson planning anyway, and will be completely at sea without proper plans.
The teachers only responsibility is to turn up on time and follow the plans the employer has set out. |
Of course hiring untrained staff and not providing the necessary tools is unacceptable. What I mean is once you are set up and ready to go, it then becomes the teacher's responsibility to make the lessons interesting and deliver them effectively. Not just go through the motions (unless that's what one is content to do and the school is content to allow it of course). I'm not a qualified (licensed) teacher but I am a professional (and have had professional training). But I get where you're coming from, it's not always the case. |
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AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| getbehindthemule wrote: |
| AV15 wrote: |
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
It's the teachers responsibity to create and deliver effective and interesting lessons in my opinion. |
Disagree completely. If you're going to hire untrained staff (i.e. no teaching qualifications) then the onus is on you, the employer, to provide all the tools and the plans neccesary for the lessons to be effective. Since those who haven't had any professional training won't have a clue what constitutes effective lesson planning anyway, and will be completely at sea without proper plans.
The teachers only responsibility is to turn up on time and follow the plans the employer has set out. |
Of course hiring untrained staff and not providing the necessary tools is unacceptable. What I mean is once you are set up and ready to go, it then becomes the teacher's responsibility to make the lessons interesting and deliver them effectively. Not just go through the motions (unless that's what one is content to do and the school is content to allow it of course). I'm not a qualified (licensed) teacher but I am a professional (and have had professional training). But I get where you're coming from, it's not always the case. |
I'd say the overwhelming majority of ESL jobs are content for the teacher just to go through the motions.
I'm not sure there should be an expectation that the lessons are interesting and effective. Again, it comes down to hiring practices. If you hire someone who has no teaching qualifications, how can you expect them to know how to design and deliver an effective lesson? Standard operating procedure for most schools is you hire a white face and put them in front of a classroom with a textbook. There's precious little feedback, professional development, or quality control. Decent lessons under these circumstances should be regarded as a bonus, not an expectation. Thankfully employers do seem to recognise this, hence why firings for being a 'bad teacher' are rare.
What's acceptable is ultimately defined by the employer, so if the employer is quite content for the teacher to teach from the textbook with no planning, then there's nothing wrong if the teacher does just that. Your contract is with your employer, not with your students. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:40 am Post subject: |
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There is also the point that we enter into a beneficial contract of service.
There is no 'if I feel like it' clause. |
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