|
Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 51
|
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jmbf wrote: |
I think for university professors I agree with you. However, as you said, it takes many years of work and study to reach such a position. I would wager the availability of such positions are relatively few and far between.
My comments were tailored towards the majority of university positions (e.g. lecturers, senior lecturers etc etc) who will be on perhaps 40-50K / month at most (if anyone could clarify?). Yes, the conditions and working hours may be better than those on the EDB NET scheme, but most experienced teachers on the NET scheme will be on 60-70K / month plus bonuses, return flights allowance etc etc. That's quite a difference.
Moreover, I recall seeing a few articles / comments about the general salary in universities taking a hit recently and things getting worse in terms of overall renumeration. (again, happy to be proven wrong, that's just the general vibe I've picked up) |
To be honest, I'm not sure what MA level university work is like in Hong Kong, however most university jobs worldwide don't require office hours or other useless deskwarming after your classes are finished. Thus, comparing a 20 hour contact week at a Hong Kong University compared to 20 hours of contact in an international school or the EDB NET scheme isn't really showing the whole story - since you're working 50% less at the university, and have much longer holidays (NET scheme holidays are well known to be stingy in particular, with post holders often only getting a month of summer break).
Personally, I'd rather work 20 hours a week for 40k+long holidays than get 60k for 40 hours a week+reduced holidays. But that tradeoff between time and money is something quite specific to the individual. Sadly (IMO), many people in the world seem to put money as their number 1, 2 and 3 priority in life, working environment be damned.
I've seen universities in Hong Kong recruiting for tenure track assistant professor posts in Applied Linguistics before. Yes, the numbers of those jobs are few compared to MA level jobs, or jobs teaching kids - but then again a much lower percentage of ESL'ers have PhD's as opposed to MA's, so the ratio of jobs to applicants might not actually be much worse. Not 100% on this though, since I lack both an MA and a PhD, but it seems to be quite likely. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Posts: 663
|
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm also not an expert, but I'm not convinced that university work is necessarily that much better in terms of working hours. From a website detailing working conditions across different jobs in HK:
University. Professors teaching at universities throughout Hong Kong will have a more flexible work schedule, but this role also comes with a lack of consistency in working hours, due to the nature of tasks being undertaken. This doesn’t necessarily equate to fewer work hours, instead, it typically involves different scopes of work to be completed daily. A number of responsibilities can contribute to this erratic and fluctuating schedule, including the number of lectures in a given day, study group sessions, open office hours, and faculty meetings. It is important to consider these, in addition to the regular teaching duties such as lesson preparations and grading.
This seems to imply that a lecturer's / professor schedule might be more flexible and involve SLIGHTLY less hours than other teaching positions, but it doesn't seem to be as significant as a 20 hrs vs 40 hrs difference.
Naturally, if anyone working in such as position could confirm any of this, then that would be appreciated. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017 Posts: 51
|
Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jmbf wrote: |
I'm also not an expert, but I'm not convinced that university work is necessarily that much better in terms of working hours. From a website detailing working conditions across different jobs in HK:
University. Professors teaching at universities throughout Hong Kong will have a more flexible work schedule, but this role also comes with a lack of consistency in working hours, due to the nature of tasks being undertaken. This doesn’t necessarily equate to fewer work hours, instead, it typically involves different scopes of work to be completed daily. A number of responsibilities can contribute to this erratic and fluctuating schedule, including the number of lectures in a given day, study group sessions, open office hours, and faculty meetings. It is important to consider these, in addition to the regular teaching duties such as lesson preparations and grading.
This seems to imply that a lecturer's / professor schedule might be more flexible and involve SLIGHTLY less hours than other teaching positions, but it doesn't seem to be as significant as a 20 hrs vs 40 hrs difference.
Naturally, if anyone working in such as position could confirm any of this, then that would be appreciated. |
Yeah, it'd be nice to hear from someone with a lecturer position in HK. I wouldn't put too much weight on what a website article says, since there's a ton of website articles out there that reckon it should take an ESL teacher 20 hours of prep and grading a week to match 20 hours of contact time, and that's total nonsense since it takes about 3 or 4 hours, tops.
These are salary scales from 07/08, so fairly out of date now, but it seems to show that permanent faculty members make decent coin, especially when you consider most of them will get a housing allowance on top of this. A lecturer wouldn't be on as much as a tenured faculty prof though. http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr07-08/english/panels/ed/papers/ed1210cb2-788-1-e.pdf |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kowloon
Joined: 11 Jan 2016 Posts: 133
|
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's a reasonable debate. I can't give a definitive answer either. I am on the NET scheme myself, must admit I'd never heard anyone on the scheme complaining about holidays. Now, that potentially could be down to the older NETs on the scheme coming from Western schools, where their holidays might have been abbreviated by exam marking, school trips, curric planning etc. so in comparison scheme holidays are fine. No idea.
I generally get 10-14 days at Xmas, CNY and Easter, then as you said, I always have a 28 day block in summer, although usually a bit more, towards 33. Then after I return I need to pop in for a meeting, but am then free again until term starts. A lot of NETs will do a Europe/America/Oz/NZ trip with the 28 days and then pop off to somewhere closer for a week before term. Not ideal if you have your heart set on 8 weeks of backpacking mind.
I know a lecturer (not a professor, doesn't have a PhD) at a Uni here, although not well enough to ask him outright about office hours. He does keep them to an extent though. As I have visited his office a few times on days he hasn't been teaching. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
HeidiHector
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 36 Location: China
|
Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You can always study part-time on the side. Many schools themselves have PGDE (2-3 years) or PhD (4-5 years) programs. And you would probably get a discount for studying at the school where you work. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling. Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|