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Savings in China

 
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reblair79



Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Savings in China Reply with quote

HI. I was just curious to get an idea of what a newbie with a BA (unrelated to TEFL), a CELTA and no teaching experience other than 1 year assistance voluntary work (local council) expect to save in one year with their first teaching job in China? I'm aware that is vague is it could vary depending on the city, the job offer and lifestyle. An average would be good to know or even just peoples own experiences of what they saved (with an idea of the job they had and lifestyle etc). Thanks! Ray
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Markness



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Ray,

I know you said this out loud already but it is true when you had said "it really depends". Thankfully you said what you've got in terms of paper work (which kind of helps, but the most important thing is your ability to try and sniff out good/bad work).

When I was first in China I was here to study Chinese and all of that jazz and dealt with a recruiter and was only taking in a very humble 4800RMB. I just had fun and thought I was going to find privates easily, which was actually not possible. The area I had lived in was filled with the non-rich folk, and there were no training schools around even. They paid for all of my bills and everything, but still.. 4800RMB 5 years ago or so was not very good. I saved probably about 2000 or so of it, so that would be about 25000RMB a year, which is probably what you can save in a month here if you work a ton. Worst part of it all was on my way out my school couldn't realize why they couldn't keep a foreign teacher there. They paid a lot (and I didn't even know), and they couldn't retain a foreign teacher. I tried to explain to the school that I would stay if they got rid of the recruiter and paid me the full amount, but they were too hesitant and just believed us foreigners were unreliable and therefore the recruiter is a necessary evil (I hope they enjoy the 1-semester teachers).

A year or so later I worked at a training school and took in a much healthier amount. I was at about 10,000RMB, however instead of working only 15 hours a week I had to work 20 now, and the hours were never blocked together. Training schools are fair in the sense that they will pay you on time, but everything else is out of the window. Endless antics from your uneducated bosses/colleagues and then there are the foreign narcs (usually super unqualified for work anywhere else and are looking to move up the chain there). With all of the shenanigans like the school not giving us proper time off, to starting to deduct people for not having "proper" lesson plans, it was time for me to head off to greener pastures. The training school gave me good experience but I would not recommend it unless you really needed a job. The savings of that 10,000RMB was probably about 3000RMB or so a month because I am western and don't want to eat 10RMB noodles 3 times a day, and also enjoyed going out every now and then/buying a new computer, etc. So that year I think I had saved about 30-40,000RMB.

Fast forward to a year after that and you have where I am now, working at an "international" high school where I am getting about 16,000RMB a month (my contract is going to get renewed and I am going to ask for a juicy raise as they keep making us sign 2-year contracts). I only teach 15 hours a week, but again, there are issues with the location since I am a little bit away from where all of the action/jobs are. I have been looking for extra work I'd say pretty much the entire time being here, but it is a struggle to find something that isn't a complete rip-off. The high school itself is fine, the students are rich and kind of couldn't make it to the really good high schools here, so their parents decided for them that they need to go abroad, and here we are. Anywho, back to the extra work situation. If you live quite far away from where all the training schools are, it can be quite annoying. The training schools have not seemed to have raised their part-time hourly rate since I've been here from the beginning, as a matter of fact they are pulling off shenanigans like offering 200 an hour, but since you only teach 50 minutes you get only 166 or something like that. Seriously not worth it if you are putting in 60-80 hours a month.

For purposes of saving your eyes from bleeding, I now am able to save about 8-10,000RMB a month or so from my current salary (which goes straight to the wedding funds), so I pretty much have a gigantic moth flying out of my wallet all the time. I had some good months where I worked extra and could save double that when I worked at other training institutions, but I felt it wasn't worth it as they always always made you work much longer than the hours advertised in the sense that they never were able to block hours together, and not to mention the commute that exists as well.

I live in a tier 2 city, so if you're aiming for a big one like Beijing/Shanghai a game changer there would be that the school would have to offer accommodation, if you're outside of there then it is fine. Accommodation is a big thing in those parts so you it is super important to factor that in. If you're working at a training school in Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou and they offer 15-16,000RMB a month, well that sounds all nice and everything but it is actually worse saving power than a place like Chengdu if you're getting 11,000RMB a month here. The housing there for something that doesn't look post-apocalyptic is probably in the range of 4-6000RMB a month, whereas in Chengdu I am currently living in a 2-bedroom brand-new apartment which costs me 1200RMB a month (unfurnished, but we rather buy our own and not live in one that has "furniture").

So, what can we get from all of this? Best place to apply at are public schools, or "international" ones. They have the lowest hours/highest pay ratio. If you can find an extra school to work at in the evenings/weekends then you're really laughing and can be looking at saving 10-15,000RMB a month no problem.

Training school savings are probably in the range of 3-5,000RMB a month which is okay.

If you're not working extra then you can consider the public school savings much closer to the training school ones. Forget about working extra if you're already working full-time at a training school as they keep you there almost all the time in order to make the school look "busy". Nowadays the contract hours seem to be getting longer, but the pay remains. I'd pretty much avoid training schools at all costs and hope that the government cracks down on those places as they are a den for those people who are keeping the salaries down for you. Get them out!

Oh.. forgot something to add, an honorable mention to online teaching. I am looking into that, and heard that you can get about 100-150 or so RMB an hour teaching at home, so that is an another avenue to pursue as well. I am looking into it as we speak and recommend others to do so as well.

A very important edit: your lifestyle is also super important to your savings. If you're going out to the bar every weekend with friends then look at shaving off 2000RMB a month from your potential savings. If you're like me and only go out like once a month then you can pretty much not even worry about it. I live a pretty good life, I read a lot and play video games/look for extra work, haha. A lot of money is saved but there are expenses that come around like a new computer/dual monitors/buying the missus a new computer/buying a new big-screen TV/buying new furniture that doesn't look like the Chinese style which is essentially furniture that looks like it is from the 1970s. That gouges your savings quite a bit, and spring festival time you can pretty much write that month off as you have to take into account the red envelopes you give to family so that grandma can buy milk powder, etc. Also if you're like me and get tired of eating the local cuisine all the time (which will happen, trust me), you're looking at taking off an another 2000RMB a month from taobao import purchases. I'm cool with that though as long as I can have bacon/eggs/hashbrowns for breakfast before I have to go into the sweatshop. So basically there is some variation depending on what kind of person you are. If you're a monk and like to work then you can save a ton. If you're like me then you can save quite a bit, but my sanity remains and I do not feel the need to have to go back home every 6 months like my friends who are running a pretty lean savings operation.

Mark
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getbehindthemule



Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've received a great response from Markness there...
I live in a tier 1 city - Shanghai - and it's not as expensive as some posters on here make out. If you are content not living in the city center you will be fine. Public transportation is fantastic here, there's a Metro station every 10-15minutes walk. )
Try and go for the type of job (public/'international' school) that Markness suggested. Most of these will come with an accomodation allowance (tax free). I get 3500/month and my rent is 3200/month (decent sized one bedroom apartment).
You can live very comfortably on 6k/month here, so if you have a job 12k+ you can easily save half of your salary (much more if you're a bit more frugal than I am haha).
I'm three years in the same public school job (my first in China) and get a pay rise annually and full Summer pay upon re-signing of contract. I also get 8k airfare allowance in cash every Summer.
So I would say look for a minimum of 12k + good overall package and you will be fine in a Tier 1 city.
I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have regarding the cost of living in SH etc, if it's of interst to you.
Anyway, I hope that you can land on your feet as I have. Good Luck!
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reblair79



Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for that reply Mark. It was very informative and gave me lots of information to consider.

Getbehindthemule, thanks also, it seems from what you both say, if I do go to China then the schools seem the right place to go. I have a very rough idea now of what I can expect to save depending on lifestyle and job etc.

I'd still love to hear any other experiences from others too as it's very interesting.

Regards, Ray
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getbehindthemule



Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reblair79 wrote:
Thanks so much for that reply Mark. It was very informative and gave me lots of information to consider.

Getbehindthemule, thanks also, it seems from what you both say, if I do go to China then the schools seem the right place to go. I have a very rough idea now of what I can expect to save depending on lifestyle and job etc.

I'd still love to hear any other experiences from others too as it's very interesting.

Regards, Ray



Yep, public school gigs (primary/middle/high) seem to have the best packages considering the relatively light workload. You also have evenings and weekends to yourself and long holidays. 4 weeks for spring festival and 8 weeks for Summer. It also has the advantage of being offered private work from parents, work colleagues, etc. once you establish yourself and gain their trust.
Each to their own, but I wouldn't even consider a language mill position. It's probably true that it's not a bad idea for new teachers that come to China to work at one of these places for their first year before moving on. But be wary that you'll be working unsociable hours and may have to deal with a lot of bs!

Edit: Since the OP specifically asked about the first year. I should admit that I saved very little in my first year to be honest. This was due to numerous factors, mainly:
1. It can be expensive to set yourself up in an apartment for example. You will most likely need to cough up 3-4months rent intially. Standard seems to be to pay 3 months in advance and 1 month as a deposit.
2. Newbie tax: overspending, going out drinking in western bars too much at weekends, not knowing where the cheap eats are, etc.
3. I went on a long Winter holiday to travel SE Asia.
So don't expect to save too much in the first 6-12months but after that you'll be flying! GL


Last edited by getbehindthemule on Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others have already suggested, that is an outstanding post, Markness! It's rare to get so much info and experience in such a detailed, concise format. This thread would make a good sticky, so that it doesn't get lost in the China pages.

.
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VanillaICE



Joined: 21 Feb 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked at a company in BJ for 3 years after leaving my university job, my salary was 19k yuan a month after taxes, and I would get paid a double salary in January for the bonus. I was almost totally broke when I started working for them.

I would save about 10k yuan a month - I didnt buy alot of useless crap or take lots of random trips at every chance, my rent was 3.5 k for a room, and I would go out and drink a few times a week in sanlitun. I left that job with over 50k$ in the bank, maybe that's not alot to others, but I had never ever been able to save close to that much money.
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kaiokena



Joined: 19 Nov 2011
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have plenty of savings but the banks won't let me invest in a fixed term deposit unless I wait for 12 months of residency and provide a lot of documents.

How can we invest our savings?
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Marinx



Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 86
Location: Guangdong

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would anyone be willing to clarify how a person looks for work at a public school in China?

I mean: would you go through an agency or contact the school directly? Do they advertise?

I really only know about the English First/Aston types of places, or recruiters, and from what I have read on the forum neither of those are very good options so I'm really interested to find out how to tap into the public school job market.

I am preparing to be in China by Sept 2018 (Anglo, native English speaker, Canadian, 120hr Ontesol certificate with practicum, Bachelors degree in conflict resolution studies)) and this information would help me immensely.
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currentaffairs



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

getbehindthemule wrote:
You've received a great response from Markness there...
I live in a tier 1 city - Shanghai - and it's not as expensive as some posters on here make out. If you are content not living in the city center you will be fine. Public transportation is fantastic here, there's a Metro station every 10-15minutes walk. )
Try and go for the type of job (public/'international' school) that Markness suggested. Most of these will come with an accomodation allowance (tax free). I get 3500/month and my rent is 3200/month (decent sized one bedroom apartment).
You can live very comfortably on 6k/month here, so if you have a job 12k+ you can easily save half of your salary (much more if you're a bit more frugal than I am haha).
I'm three years in the same public school job (my first in China) and get a pay rise annually and full Summer pay upon re-signing of contract. I also get 8k airfare allowance in cash every Summer.
So I would say look for a minimum of 12k + good overall package and you will be fine in a Tier 1 city.
I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have regarding the cost of living in SH etc, if it's of interst to you.
Anyway, I hope that you can land on your feet as I have. Good Luck!


Good post. You have almost all the figures (housing allowance and airfare reimbursement) apart from your base salary. Also, what is your weekly teaching load?
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huoguojiggae2017



Joined: 13 Jul 2017
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would anyone be willing to clarify how a person looks for work at a public school in China?


There are 2 types of recruiters. One will hire you along with 49 others and you are just a number to them. The other will be more of a matchmaker.

I found the latter to give me more successful job offers where I stayed on the full year. I work directly with the school.

Now, you are asking about "public school". This is not that black and white anymore. You used to be placed at a "No.1 school of (city)".

That is kind of being phased out from the looks of it. Instead, these No. 1 schools are using programs which hire teachers to teach higher level students. They have a curriculum including math, science, and Chinese studies. However, the "public" school students never have classes with you. You are just the new "foreigner" at their school.

If you do actually get placed in a "public" school setting, it is most likely through a private English school that farms out teachers. If you go this route, ONLY sign a contract with that private school and not the recruiter. Make sure they only send you to 1 or 2 schools a semester period (4 months), or else you are looking at horrendous commuting experiences.

What I show potential employers is a rectangle. If they get me an apartment and I can walk from one corner to the opposite kitty corner (upper right to lower left for example) within 20 minutes where the school is located, no problem. Or I would need to take a bus. Either is fine.

What you want to avoid is the monkey in the middle positions. You don't want to live 40 minutes out of the major city where nothing is at, and then have to commute 30 minutes in the opposite direction to the school. Ask questions and understand where the school is. Try to find it on Baidu maps before you go. Compare it to where the apartment and center of the city is located.

If you get a job in a small rural city, there won't be Walmarts, but there should be substitutes. Find out where those are. For me, I have 3 different supermart supermarkets which are like Walmart and then some other Chinese ones which will have clothes for fall and winter.

You shouldn't have to travel way into the major city you are near if you can find out where these stores are.

If you want a public school job, it has changed. It's not just 40-50 students in many classes. They now have standards, and currently I am interviewing students who score a certain level. If you don't want to call it public, that's fine but there is not a public school in my area hiring foreigners. This is as "public" as they get.

They get so much funding and I think times are changing where pure public school job offers aren't there anymore. They are being replaced by "AP courses". That's where we come in if we want a public school style job.
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getbehindthemule



Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

currentaffairs wrote:
getbehindthemule wrote:
You've received a great response from Markness there...
I live in a tier 1 city - Shanghai - and it's not as expensive as some posters on here make out. If you are content not living in the city center you will be fine. Public transportation is fantastic here, there's a Metro station every 10-15minutes walk. )
Try and go for the type of job (public/'international' school) that Markness suggested. Most of these will come with an accomodation allowance (tax free). I get 3500/month and my rent is 3200/month (decent sized one bedroom apartment).
You can live very comfortably on 6k/month here, so if you have a job 12k+ you can easily save half of your salary (much more if you're a bit more frugal than I am haha).
I'm three years in the same public school job (my first in China) and get a pay rise annually and full Summer pay upon re-signing of contract. I also get 8k airfare allowance in cash every Summer.
So I would say look for a minimum of 12k + good overall package and you will be fine in a Tier 1 city.
I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have regarding the cost of living in SH etc, if it's of interst to you.
Anyway, I hope that you can land on your feet as I have. Good Luck!


Good post. You have almost all the figures (housing allowance and airfare reimbursement) apart from your base salary. Also, what is your weekly teaching load?


I've spent three years at my school. My teaching load started at 7 teaching hrs (35mins) per week in my first year, and yes I did land on my feet landing this number! Second year was 11 classes per week, third 15hrs per week and finally heading back for a 4th year where I will teach the full school (19hrs per week).
I like the school, management, work colleagues and the students especially. Base salary can be overrated - To be treated fair and to enjoy my working conditions is my thing (and the holidays of course ha) Smile
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Marinx



Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 86
Location: Guangdong

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

huoguojiggae2017 wrote:
Quote:
Would anyone be willing to clarify how a person looks for work at a public school in China?


There are 2 types of recruiters. One will hire you along with 49 others and you are just a number to them. The other will be more of a matchmaker.

I found the latter to give me more successful job offers where I stayed on the full year. I work directly with the school.

Now, you are asking about "public school". This is not that black and white anymore. You used to be placed at a "No.1 school of (city)".

That is kind of being phased out from the looks of it. Instead, these No. 1 schools are using programs which hire teachers to teach higher level students. They have a curriculum including math, science, and Chinese studies. However, the "public" school students never have classes with you. You are just the new "foreigner" at their school.

If you do actually get placed in a "public" school setting, it is most likely through a private English school that farms out teachers. If you go this route, ONLY sign a contract with that private school and not the recruiter. Make sure they only send you to 1 or 2 schools a semester period (4 months), or else you are looking at horrendous commuting experiences.

What I show potential employers is a rectangle. If they get me an apartment and I can walk from one corner to the opposite kitty corner (upper right to lower left for example) within 20 minutes where the school is located, no problem. Or I would need to take a bus. Either is fine.

What you want to avoid is the monkey in the middle positions. You don't want to live 40 minutes out of the major city where nothing is at, and then have to commute 30 minutes in the opposite direction to the school. Ask questions and understand where the school is. Try to find it on Baidu maps before you go. Compare it to where the apartment and center of the city is located.

If you get a job in a small rural city, there won't be Walmarts, but there should be substitutes. Find out where those are. For me, I have 3 different supermart supermarkets which are like Walmart and then some other Chinese ones which will have clothes for fall and winter.

You shouldn't have to travel way into the major city you are near if you can find out where these stores are.

If you want a public school job, it has changed. It's not just 40-50 students in many classes. They now have standards, and currently I am interviewing students who score a certain level. If you don't want to call it public, that's fine but there is not a public school in my area hiring foreigners. This is as "public" as they get.

They get so much funding and I think times are changing where pure public school job offers aren't there anymore. They are being replaced by "AP courses". That's where we come in if we want a public school style job.


Thank you so much for your detailed response! Before I didn't realize that University positions were called "public" which is part of where my confusion came from. Now searching the job board makes a lot more sense to me.

I'm curious what kind of signs indicate one recruiter is just a gatherer, and another more of a matchmaker. This will probably become apparent to me once I actually start looking.

Thank again for your reply!
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nomadic_meow



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Vietnam

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

What you want to avoid is the monkey in the middle positions. You don't want to live 40 minutes out of the major city where nothing is at, and then have to commute 30 minutes in the opposite direction to the school. Ask questions and understand where the school is. Try to find it on Baidu maps before you go. Compare it to where the apartment and center of the city is located.

I agree that commuting and conveniences can be a major concern. It varies a bit depending on how much you like to get out and how much you care to bring back for your apartment or diet.

I did a 2nd tier city gig (airport-ish Qingdao) where teachers were housed kind of all over, but my apartment was around 45 minutes by bus from the city center on a light traffic day. (In heavy traffic, seriously forget it unless you like to sleep on the highway.) I had the benefit of a decent little shopping village around the apt with basic necessities and a few often "secret down the corridor" eateries (lots of Korean in that particular spot), but from a more Western/big city perspective downtown was so much more dramatic and varied. You could pay a chunk for the occasional faster taxi (around $15) or sit in the big slow bus for under $1 -- but the bus would get jam-packed evenings and weekends.

Also be aware that some of the apartment complexes themselves, are really huge. Think villages unto themselves. They may have multiple guarded gates (try to find out how locals describe your gate's location to a taxi driver before you arrive or leave). And windy narrow roads inside, and -- if you're lucky -- a few businesses hidden away in what look like just another building until you get up close. It can be a lot of work or a stroke of luck to find out exactly what spot your particular building is. This is the kind of thing a recruiter, or even school representatives, rarely offer without prodding and sometimes risking "undiplomatic, too picky" pushing -- and some of them just won't know themselves as someone else in their outfit will be taking care of it.
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