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rioux
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880
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 Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:48 am Post subject: Our university is refusing to pay our February salary |
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The scenario is as follows (post #6):
Just before the start of the first term one of the bosses of the English Department came to our apartment building and had a "meeting" with us in the stairwell. He told my wife and I that the first term would be "about 18 weeks" so after the meeting my wife and I booked our flight to the Philippines. It was 1 week before Christmas (the 16th week I believe) that we were informed that the term is really 20 weeks. Management was upset that we were leaving "early" but when we told them we based our decision to leave on what they had specifically told us they denied telling us!
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=116036
Now management is saying that they will deduct the February salary for both my wife and I (yes, we are legally here teaching) since they still claim we left early last term. Both her and I think this is extremely unfair since we based our flight departure date on what we were specifically told by them.
What are our options? |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:37 am Post subject: |
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I'd say very few. Negotiation remains the best answer with a compromise made on both sides. probably more of a compromise on your side though.
Bear in mind, nobody is ever going to admit responsibility for the mistake. It's their culture.
In the future, I'd recommend getting the dates for holidays set in the contract itself. It's what I do now. |
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Blistering Zanazilz
Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Our university is refusing to pay our February salary |
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| rioux wrote: |
Just before the start of the first term one of the bosses of the English Department came to our apartment building and had a "meeting" with us in the stairwell. He told my wife and I that the first term would be "about 18 weeks" so after the meeting my wife and I booked our flight to the Philippines. It was 1 week before Christmas (the 16th week I believe) that we were informed that the term is really 20 weeks. Management was upset that we were leaving "early" but when we told them we based our decision to leave on what they had specifically told us they denied telling us!
Now management is saying that they will deduct the February salary for both my wife and I (yes, we are legally here teaching) since they still claim we left early last term. Both her and I think this is extremely unfair since we based our flight departure date on what we were specifically told by them.
What are our options? |
What I'm going to write doesn't help you now, but in future I suggest you don't make financial decisions based on what some guy told you in a stairwell. Before I commit to travel plans I always get vacation start dates in writing from the FAO, and if they come back with changes I can point out what was already agreed to. Is the guy you spoke to in the stairwell the same person who told you the term was really 20 weeks, or two different people? That might have been the problem. As further backup it's also a good idea to check your school website to find out when holidays begin and end. Options? Try clear up the confusion, see if they'll relent and pay you the month's salary. |
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rioux
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Our university is refusing to pay our February salary |
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| Blistering Zanazilz wrote: |
| . Is the guy you spoke to in the stairwell the same person who told you the term was really 20 weeks, or two different people? That might have been the problem. As further backup it's also a good idea to check your school website to find out when holidays begin and end. Options? Try clear up the confusion, see if they'll relent and pay you the month's salary. |
The head of the English Department told us it was about 18 weeks. Months later the FAO told us it was 20 weeks.
Before arriving they seemed already annoyed that I was pointing out things in the contract that needed to be changed. One was if there was ever a disagreement about how the words of the contract were to be interpreted the management was always correct. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Our university is refusing to pay our February salary |
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| rioux wrote: |
| Blistering Zanazilz wrote: |
| . Is the guy you spoke to in the stairwell the same person who told you the term was really 20 weeks, or two different people? That might have been the problem. As further backup it's also a good idea to check your school website to find out when holidays begin and end. Options? Try clear up the confusion, see if they'll relent and pay you the month's salary. |
The head of the English Department told us it was about 18 weeks. Months later the FAO told us it was 20 weeks. |
There you go. About. Roughly. And that's China. Nothing is ever definite until they're forced into such a situation.
Get your dates on paper. You need a paper trail (or electronic trail - Wechat, QQ, etc) for any disagreements.
| Quote: |
| Before arriving they seemed already annoyed that I was pointing out things in the contract that needed to be changed. One was if there was ever a disagreement about how the words of the contract were to be interpreted the management was always correct. |
The Chinese contract will always take precedence over the translated English contract. Get your Chinese contract translated independently, and don't sign until you're happy with what it states.
Saying that though, signing the contract and arriving is really only the start of the negotiations.  never assume that they'll stick to the contract without you beating it over their heads. Which is why you need it to clearly state your terms. Anything else and they/the PSB will ignore your demands as being unreasonable. |
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In the heat of the moment
Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 393
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: |
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That sucks for you, OP. If it's any consolation I've worked for a school that changed the dates of a holiday, after initially giving them in writing. We (the faculty) had to either change the dates of our flights or take unpaid leave. What did we do? A decent gig, otherwise, so we all just got on with eating the losses one way or another, and put it behind us.
Some you win, some you lose. C'est la vie. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Our university is refusing to pay our February salary |
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When did you actually take your holiday? I'm assuming it was between week 18 and 20?
As others have said, not much you can do. Others will suggest withholding labour, going to the local SAFEA or PSB, but unfortunately you have nothing in writing, just your word against theirs, and the only facts are that you weren't there during the semester. |
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thechangling
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| I've lost a fair amount of flight money having to make changes due to Chinese B.S and incompetence around semester beginning and ending dates and as someone said the only way is to get it in writing via wechat, or actually in the contract and hold them to it. When i'm threatened these days I always threaten them back and then walk if necessary. If it gets that far then that employer (or FAO usually) isn't worth working with anyway and it's usually symptomatic of systemic problems across the board. |
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kev20
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:33 am Post subject: |
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I don't even think this is just a China thing. This is a common sense issue. It seems that the OP booked and paid for a holiday without knowing exact dates of their work holiday. The head of the English department didn't give a definite date in the initial meeting. Even if he did, my instinct would be to send a message closer to the time via wechat, e-mail or whatever to tell him I was about to book flights for my holiday, can he confirm the dates, and is there any reason I can't book those flights?
Yes, the school could have been nicer about it but I think it's your responsibility to follow up and get exact dates. Did you even offer to take extra classes before or after the holiday? Chinese are generally the same as everyone else, if you're nice about it, if you don't try to blame other people, if you try to find a solution or accept some responsibility, they will probably try to help. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:44 am Post subject: |
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...around 18 weeks, come on! You need an exact date!! That guy probably didnt know, or hadnt been told yet himself when the finishing up date was, hence giving you a guesstimation.
Flight booked or not, you can't just swan off with two weeks of the semester remaining! No sympathy whatsoever OP, sorry for your troubles though. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| I hope they're only taking two weeks holiday. They should at the minimum be paying you the seven days that are over Spring Festival that are national paid holidays. |
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Modernist
Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 72
Location: Routing
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Just before the start of the first term one of the bosses of the English Department came to our apartment building and had a "meeting" with us in the stairwell. He told my wife and I that the first term would be "about 18 weeks" so after the meeting my wife and I booked our flight to the Philippines. |
Really? You actually felt the need to book a flight for January in...what? Early September? You do realize that here in Asia, flights don't tend to spike in price until within 1 month of the flight date, don't you? For international flights to/from China, what I've seen is that the spike in fares happens the week AFTER Spring Festival. That's when they all head out. So even if you saved a little money compared to booking it in December, it would have been hardly notable. 20 bucks per ticket? 50 at the most? (I've flown Shanghai to Manila myself, I know the total cost quite well).
It seems to me that you have some kind of weird fixation with getting the absolute cheapest fare (seems to be a certain type of person who gets off on this sort of 'accomplishment'), supposedly by booking as early as possible, which in this case has come back to hurt you.
| Quote: |
| Both her and I think this is extremely unfair since we based our flight departure date on what we were specifically told by them. |
Did I miss the part where the guy said 'about' 18 weeks? How does that count as being 'specifically told'?
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| What are our options? |
Next time, wait until you have a printed schedule from the school before you book a flight. |
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litterascriptor
Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| In the heat of the moment wrote: |
That sucks for you, OP. If it's any consolation I've worked for a school that changed the dates of a holiday, after initially giving them in writing. We (the faculty) had to either change the dates of our flights or take unpaid leave. What did we do? A decent gig, otherwise, so we all just got on with eating the losses one way or another, and put it behind us.
Some you win, some you lose. C'est la vie. |
Hah, I've had my school ask me to change dates of flights before, I readily agreed providing they paid the fee. Which luckily for me they always agreed to do so. I imagine if they refused that would have caused some problems, or most likely me biting the bullet and then finding another job as soon as my contract was up. |
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rioux
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 880
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
| Next time, wait until you have a printed schedule from the school before you book a flight. |
Next time the school ought to have this ready before having a meeting right before the start of the term. That is their responsibility.
By the way, we went through a few channels and we are going to get the full pay that is properly owed to us.
Thanks. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Come end June, refuse to release final marks for your classes.
At the moment it's just you against school, but get students and parents on your case, things could be different.
Don't tell school your fly out date and suggest you are prepared to wait as long as it takes to get your dosh. |
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