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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| thechangling wrote: |
| Chinese 'business culture' if you can call it that, is ruthless and cold hearted and there is no integrity just greed, pressure, stress and and misery. All newbies are guilty of is being naive which we all are when young. Don't shift the blame. |
Shift the blame? hardly. Both parties are to blame. The Newbies for not doing their research and simply trusting it'll be the same as their home country... And I was one of them, when I got shafted by Kid Castle during my first year here. Should have been more aware of the realities of China.
The schools are not to be trusted. They might be wonderful for 3 years, but at some stage, they will screw with you. Sharks in the water always looking for a weakness.
Everyone coming to China should be online reading forums like this one, and learning about the real Chinese culture. It's not something hidden away. The EFL forums are full of stories/reports about being screwed by various employers. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| cormac wrote: |
| thechangling wrote: |
| Chinese 'business culture' if you can call it that, is ruthless and cold hearted and there is no integrity just greed, pressure, stress and and misery. All newbies are guilty of is being naive which we all are when young. Don't shift the blame. |
Shift the blame? hardly. Both parties are to blame. The Newbies for not doing their research and simply trusting it'll be the same as their home country... And I was one of them, when I got shafted by Kid Castle during my first year here. Should have been more aware of the realities of China.
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But that's victim blaming though. It's perfectly possible to be shafted by an employer after having done your research. Additionally, there's only so much research you can do online before coming to the country. |
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RiverMystic
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1986
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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I know a Chinese English teacher in Shenyang who earns 5000 a month in her regular school. However, she started her own tutorial centre on the side, teaching ten hours on Saturdays, 2 hours on Tuesdays and 4 hours on Friday evenings. She gets up to 30 kids coming along per class, because they heard she was good. She has no permit to teach outside her regular school, and she has never registered her own “school.” She clears an extra 40 000 a month from her own school, no tax.
Last edited by RiverMystic on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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There's a lot of this goes on.
The cars in our school carpark were not bought on the regular teaching salary.
The latitude given to Chinese staffers may not reflect how the Management view off-campus work by FTs. That said, it shows there's money to be had. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The bear wrote: |
| But that's victim blaming though. It's perfectly possible to be shafted by an employer after having done your research. Additionally, there's only so much research you can do online before coming to the country. |
Rubbish. It's not a rape case. It's a period of employment in a foreign country with well documented explanations of the various scams, or trouble someone can get into. There are dozens of websites dedicated to ESL alone that tell a cautionary tale with regards to Chinese employers.
But look, we're not going to agree on this. You wish to pass all blame on to the employer, and I don't consider ignorance a reasonable excuse for personal responsibility
Back to the thread topic since we're going well off it now. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:14 am Post subject: |
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At school I worked at 6 teachers got recruited and all had done this research before leaving home countries.
At the first meeting with the boss she advised of new contract terms.
One teacher spoke up and said what about the contract we signed at home?
Boss: 'Oh that was for the purpose of getting you here..'
Just shows that multiple people can be trapped by relying on Chinese contract.
I had worked in China before and even I didn't see that coming.
This was not some mill but a provincial level vocational. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| cormac wrote: |
| The bear wrote: |
| But that's victim blaming though. It's perfectly possible to be shafted by an employer after having done your research. Additionally, there's only so much research you can do online before coming to the country. |
Rubbish. It's not a rape case. It's a period of employment in a foreign country with well documented explanations of the various scams, or trouble someone can get into. There are dozens of websites dedicated to ESL alone that tell a cautionary tale with regards to Chinese employers.
But look, we're not going to agree on this. You wish to pass all blame on to the employer, and I don't consider ignorance a reasonable excuse for personal responsibility
Back to the thread topic since we're going well off it now. |
You're right, we're not going to agree, you think that if someone does their research it's set in stone. But things change.
You can be as cautious as you want, but you can't predict the future. Sure, by doing research you cut down on the chance of being taken advantage of, but it's no guarantee. I'm not advocating blindly getting on a plane and coming to China, far from it. But I'm saying the best-laid plans of mice and men....
Case in point, last year accepted a job in April at a tier 1 university, negotiated a contract where it specifically mentioned 'oral English only', talked to current and past foreign teachers, talked to people in the city about the employer. Transferred my RP/Work Permit (just to stress I wasn't illegal). You get the picture, I did my research.
One week before I was due to arrive in September I got told I was to teach a writing class. Now, that's not a big thing to me and the employer and I worked out a compromise, you've gotta pick your battles. But what if the employer had said 'the pay is 1,000 yuan less', or withheld airfare, or not provided an apartment like the one in the pictures. Now, thankfully things worked out for me, but I'm under no illusion that worse things by far happen to other people. |
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Marinx
Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 86
Location: Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The bear wrote: |
| But what if the employer had said 'the pay is 1,000 yuan less', or withheld airfare, or not provided an apartment like the one in the pictures. |
If my prospective employer is going to have a probation period in the contract where if I do X Y or Z, I'll be let go...then I'm having a probation period in the contract where if my employer does X Y Z, they'll be let go. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| The bear wrote: |
| You're right, we're not going to agree, you think that if someone does their research it's set in stone. But things change. |
Set in stone? Hardly. By coming to China, you acknowledge that you're entering an unpredictable environment. As I said, the perils/dangers of ESL teaching in China are well documented. The contract anyone signs is worth almost nothing. We have extremely few rights, and even those are totally dependent on the schools relationships and finances. It's hardly a secret that we're gambling that the schools will hold to their promises (which they rarely ever do in entirety).
I believe that people should be aware of what they're getting themselves into, and if they don't, then part of the responsibility is on them. I'm not absolving the school of blame.
| Quote: |
| I worked out a compromise, you've gotta pick your battles. |
And that's China. |
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Markness
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 738
Location: Chengdu
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Uni jobs pay peanuts most of the time unless you get one of those "1%" kinds of uni jobs.
Go work at a private high school instead and enjoy your salary magically being tripled. Thank me later.. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Markness wrote: |
Uni jobs pay peanuts most of the time unless you get one of those "1%" kinds of uni jobs.
Go work at a private high school instead and enjoy your salary magically being tripled. Thank me later.. |
here, here
...or Middle or Primary or Kinder! My preference is Primary or Uni though. Kinder is a no no although the pay is great and Middle to High school teens are not for me!
I would love to work a Uni position but the salary is not viable for me, even topped up with some private work!
I much prefer a higher salary position where I am free evenings and weekends, have the same long holidays as in a Uni position, and can take or leave private work to suit me! |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Markness wrote: |
Uni jobs pay peanuts most of the time unless you get one of those "1%" kinds of uni jobs.
Go work at a private high school instead and enjoy your salary magically being tripled. Thank me later.. |
Public uni jobs have the lowest barriers to entry. Degree (often overlooked) native speaker origins (also often overlooked) and work experience (ditto).
There's no point citing higher salaries in this or that sector, without noting the preconditions. Private and international schools usually require home country experience and certifications.
This has been traversed so many times on these threads.  |
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Kalkstein
Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| getbehindthemule wrote: |
| Markness wrote: |
Uni jobs pay peanuts most of the time unless you get one of those "1%" kinds of uni jobs.
Go work at a private high school instead and enjoy your salary magically being tripled. Thank me later.. |
here, here
...or Middle or Primary or Kinder! My preference is Primary or Uni though. Kinder is a no no although the pay is great and Middle to High school teens are not for me!
I would love to work a Uni position but the salary is not viable for me, even topped up with some private work!
I much prefer a higher salary position where I am free evenings and weekends, have the same long holidays as in a Uni position, and can take or leave private work to suit me! |
This is why everything is circumstantial and anyone who comes out with a statement that claims one type of job is automatically superior is wrong. Where I am located private schools pay about 50-75% more, no way you will get triple the pay. I make 380% of my monthly university salary through extra work after all expenses, get way more annual leave than any private school here offers and have an easier job (I worked in a private school prior to this).
It depends on the job contract but some benefits you regularly see in universities.
- Less hours
- 2 hour periods - no messy schedule
- 4 day work weeks (I don't work Fridays right now woo!).
- 4 months annual leave (may or may not be paid, mine is).
- Less stress, nobody cares how I teach. The only paperwork I've got it grading end of semester exams and I do it in class. Scan it and send it to my FAO.
- If you work at a school or training center they might stop you from doing private work, universities generally don't care.
I'm not saying university jobs are better, I'm saying it depends on the contract and the person applying for the job. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Kalkstein wrote: |
- Less hours
- 2 hour periods - no messy schedule
- 4 day work weeks (I don't work Fridays right now woo!).
- 4 months annual leave (may or may not be paid, mine is).
- Less stress, nobody cares how I teach. The only paperwork I've got it grading end of semester exams and I do it in class. Scan it and send it to my FAO.
- If you work at a school or training center they might stop you from doing private work, universities generally don't care.
I'm not saying university jobs are better, I'm saying it depends on the contract and the person applying for the job. |
I'd be inclined to agree with you.
I work 12 hours split between three days. 1 hour commute to the campus by the official bus. No administrative hours. I get paid 7.5k per month, although usually a week or two late. Free apartment and no bills. Holidays paid in full (although that needed negotiation over two years). Even though there are 40 foreign teachers working here, the university generally doesn't know what to do with us and leaves us alone.
My employer doesn't care what I do in my free time. So, I spend my time online doing freelance work and make another 12k-20k per month from that. I rarely do private classes although I will for my own students at a 'discount' but that doesn't amount to much.
In my book, Universities are the best way to go, but you do really need to have a side income of some sort. |
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In the heat of the moment
Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 393
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Kalkstein wrote: |
- Less hours
- 2 hour periods - no messy schedule
- 4 day work weeks (I don't work Fridays right now woo!).
- 4 months annual leave (may or may not be paid, mine is).
- Less stress, nobody cares how I teach. The only paperwork I've got it grading end of semester exams and I do it in class. Scan it and send it to my FAO.
- If you work at a school or training center they might stop you from doing private work, universities generally don't care.
I'm not saying university jobs are better, I'm saying it depends on the contract and the person applying for the job. |
Fewer!
| cormac wrote: |
I'd be inclined to agree with you.
I work 12 hours split between three days. 1 hour commute to the campus by the official bus. No administrative hours. I get paid 7.5k per month, although usually a week or two late. Free apartment and no bills. Holidays paid in full (although that needed negotiation over two years). Even though there are 40 foreign teachers working here, the university generally doesn't know what to do with us and leaves us alone.
My employer doesn't care what I do in my free time. So, I spend my time online doing freelance work and make another 12k-20k per month from that. I rarely do private classes although I will for my own students at a 'discount' but that doesn't amount to much.
In my book, Universities are the best way to go, but you do really need to have a side income of some sort. |
What online work do you do? I've been doing overtime for the last 15 weeks, now that's over for a month or so and I'll have a lot of spare time to fill. The break in extra hours will be welcome, but I might soon get bored. |
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