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Strategies for progression

 
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mccallum.mitchell



Joined: 20 Mar 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:35 am    Post subject: Strategies for progression Reply with quote

Hello

Another newbie here looking for ways to progress from a BComm Finance major (Some countries might view this as a BA?) with a 120 hour TEFL certificate from an online course offered by the University of Fort Toronto. My teaching experience isn't much to speak of so I just kind of use it to put a positive spin on my application.

With all that out of the way and after going through several posts on this site I have gleaned that China is my best hope for starting down this career path but what would one want to reinvest in from whatever they might get as a rookie to increase their odds of
1. Getting a job with over 60k USD in total compensation per year
2. Teaching Business English to adult learners
3. Doing this while living in Latin America

The certs I have seen thrown around are DELTA and PGCE but what else should I be doing and ideally how should I be timing it all for a solid progression to the point where I can consider myself an "in demand" teacher rather than a "demanding" teacher.

Last but not least I would like to know what organizations out there actually invest in their teachers in terms of certifications and would allow to acquire qualifications while I work.

In the interest of brevity for you readers obviously I have omitted other factors but any suggestions are appreciated.
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's be honest. You are not going to get 60k USD teaching anything in Latin America regardless of your qualifications.

As a foreign teacher abroad your best bet for remuneration is to get licensed as a teacher, get 2 years of home country experience under your belt then look for internationally accredited international schools abroad.
In many cases the remuneration will be in the $40-50k range (depending on the country).
China or the Middle East are your best bet for money as a US citizen (but if Trump gets into a full fledged trade war China may fall off the map for you).

In most other cases a basic bachelor degree and generic TEFL cert will get you between $1k and 2K per month in Asia and less in Latin America.
Teaching adults is largely not a big thing outside of Europe and Americans won't get a visa to work as an EFL teacher in western Europe.

If you want to get more you will have to put in the time in the classroom as well as professional development.

Investing in a MATESOL or M.Ed at this point are a waste of your time and money. An MA / M.Ed is NOT like your undergrad.
It is not just coursework and accumulating credits.
The thesis or comprehensive exams coupled with your IS and publication are what really makes the difference.
It is not something to be undertaken before you actually spend a year or 5 in a classroom and have a basic understanding of what you are looking / paying for.

A post grad degree in your field may pay better dividends that heading out as a teacher. MBAs with some managerial experience or a CPA /CGA designation will do much better financially than generic TEFL teachers at home and abroad.

With all of that said... I would focus more on the savings potential rather than the gross salary.
$2000 usd in a developing country will leave you with a savings potential of about 50% and still provide a comfortable lifestyle while $5k in a developed country won't go nearly as far.

Get your feet wet then decide the path.
AFTER you pick your path then you can look at what you need to do to get there.

.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto that. An annual salary of $60,000 US isn't realistic except in rare circumstances and/or with very specific quals/experience.

mccallum.mitchell wrote:
Last but not least I would like to know what organizations out there actually invest in their teachers in terms of certifications and would allow to acquire qualifications while I work.

It's unclear what you're asking about. Aside from in-service professional development, if you're expecting an employer to cover the costs of teaching certs, don't hold your breath since there are other job candidates who already meet the requirements.
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bograt



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Ditto that. An annual salary of $60,000 US isn't realistic except in rare circumstances and/or with very specific quals/experience.

mccallum.mitchell wrote:
Last but not least I would like to know what organizations out there actually invest in their teachers in terms of certifications and would allow to acquire qualifications while I work.

It's unclear what you're asking about. Aside from in-service professional development, if you're expecting an employer to cover the costs of teaching certs, don't hold your breath since there are other job candidates who already meet the requirements.


The British Council half fund the DELTA, Masters and TYLEC for employees.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The British Council half fund the DELTA, Masters and TYLEC for employees.

My response was specific to the OP's current quals, which include an unrelated BA, an online TEFL cert, and zero experience. He'd need a CELTA or Trinity CertTESOL and at least two years post-certificate teaching experience to qualify for an entry-level BC teaching job. Plus, online certs don't impress the better employers.
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bograt



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Quote:
The British Council half fund the DELTA, Masters and TYLEC for employees.

My response was specific to the OP's current quals, which include an unrelated BA, an online TEFL cert, and zero experience. He'd need a CELTA or Trinity CertTESOL and at least two years post-certificate teaching experience to qualify for an entry-level BC teaching job. Plus, online certs don't impress the better employers.


True
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mccallum.mitchell



Joined: 20 Mar 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="nomad soul"]
Quote:
He'd need a CELTA or Trinity CertTESOL and at least two years post-certificate teaching experience to qualify for an entry-level BC teaching job. Plus, online certs don't impress the better employers.


For clarification, what's a BC teaching job?

[quote="nomad soul"]
Quote:
online certs don't impress the better employers


Ouch, right in the feel bads, I didn't know the market was that hard to break into for decent paying gigs when I signed up for this. Sad

Anyway, I just want to know what I would have to invest in time/money wise and institutions that I should be targeting.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BC = British Council (one of the more reliable and higher-paying language school chains).

It's correct that being a native English speaker with an unrelated university degree and an online TEFL cert puts you into the bottom of the pyramid on the job market (there is lots and lots of competition at this level, and pay and benefits are therefore not stellar).
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="mccallum.mitchell"][quote="nomad soul"]
Quote:
He'd need a CELTA or Trinity CertTESOL and at least two years post-certificate teaching experience to qualify for an entry-level BC teaching job. Plus, online certs don't impress the better employers.


For clarification, what's a BC teaching job?

nomad soul wrote:
Quote:
online certs don't impress the better employers


Ouch, right in the feel bads, I didn't know the market was that hard to break into for decent paying gigs when I signed up for this. Sad

Anyway, I just want to know what I would have to invest in time/money wise and institutions that I should be targeting.


BC - British Council.

Bad news for you. YOu should shame the TEFL provider who sold you the bottle of snake oil (do the TEFL and you can work as a TEFL teacher and travel the world with images of foreign lands, elephant trekking and beautiful beaches.)

Simple truth - In most countries outside of Latin America the standards have gone waay up. 20 years ago a BA and passport from an English speaking country would get you a cushy uni gig with 15 hours/week, generous holidays and lots of chances for extra income potential.

In Latin America you might get the job but it won't come with the perks or the salary.

Today the minimum to get an entry level job is a BA + TEFL for most locations.
This means long days (6 classes per day), 40-50 hour weeks at the school/academy and short vacations (2 work weeks). They usually don't include perks like airfare, housing or medical insurance.

Those nice jobs (high pay, long vacations, airfare, housing, medical, etc) go to people with actual teaching credentials (B.Ed, PGCE, MA/M.Ed) and experience.

The days of "Teach 'n Travel" with good salaries and lots of perks combined with mornings on the beach, afternoons in the classroom and evenings in the disco are pretty much gone the way of the Dodo bird.

.
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mccallum.mitchell



Joined: 20 Mar 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
online certs don't impress the better
The days of "Teach 'n Travel" with good salaries and lots of perks combined with mornings on the beach, afternoons in the classroom and evenings in the disco are pretty much gone the way of the Dodo bird.



Ok, we are veering off the topic of thread now; also who said I was banking on EFL teaching to ride the gravy train?

I have a watch, I know what time it is, and a map, I know where I want to be going. I just don't want to come back home with as much money as I had when I left, I know I'll be getting the experience I want and have access to at the moment. I have partied plenty... party, party, party and I don't see myself better able to pursue my ambitions. I said I studied finance, which means I know how money MOVES and it was inevitable that it was going to move out of this industry, just like the private teaching jobs at unis in North America.

Let's not speculate about my motives, I read the threads about what to expect starting off, I am talking to recruiters, I know which countries and areas I should be looking for jobs in. I just want to know how to set myself up to better progress after each of my year to two year-long contracts are over. Rolling Eyes
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mccallum.mitchell wrote:
I read the threads about what to expect starting off, I am talking to recruiters, I know which countries and areas I should be looking for jobs in. I just want to know how to set myself up to better progress after each of my year to two year-long contracts are over.

Again, a year or two of initial teaching experience won't be enough. At minimum, you'd need to pursue a proper entry-level TEFL course like the CELTA or Trinity CertTESOL. The better employers want to see that you've completed a 120-hour, in-person teacher training course that entailed 6 hours of being formally observed and evaluated while teaching a classroom of real students. Online TEFL certs generally lack a supervised/assessed teaching practice component, which is why they aren't widely accepted. Be aware this is also why some employers may not count your prior experience.

If you decide to make a career out of TEFL, you'd need to get a relevant master's degree. Teaching children will require even more credentials and education.
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brand new grads... stars in their eyes... the world is their oyster.... full of pizz and vinegar... ready to take the planet by the balls.

Us old expats have no idea how the world works.....

Don't be signing any 2 year contracts in EFL. Only an idiot would do that.
Licensed teachers with many years of experience... sure...
newbies.... = recipe for disaster.

OP... have a great journey. A BA in finance won't get you in the front door for most jobs globally.... Not in EFL or in Finance. Entry level is where you will start.

Old goats like me with our MBAs, M.Eds and PhDs are the guys you are competing with for anything above the mail room or 30 classes per week in a language center.

The reality is that you will earn between 12-24k USD as you get started working as an expat (teaching or finance). You will be working 40-60 hours per week with minimal holiday time and few or no benefits.

Take a read through the archives in the various forums here or the horror stories of young expats abroad (once they get over the honeymoon phase) on your favorite social media platform.

Have a great journey..... hopefully we will see you back in a couple of years with something constructive to add to the conversation rather than trying to tell the mountain men where the bear sh1t in the woods.

.


Last edited by suphanburi on Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blistering Zanazilz



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

suphanburi wrote:
Take a read through the archives in the various forums here or the horror stories of young expats abroad (once they get over the honeymoon phase) on your favorite social media platform.

Have a great journey..... hopefully we will see you back in a couple of years with something constructive to add to the conversation rather than trying to tell the mountain men where the bear sh1t in the woods.

.

Lots of the horror stories on here have been written by old expats. Some people never learn.
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And some things never change.
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Modernist



Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 72
Location: Routing

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Let's not speculate about my motives, I read the threads about what to expect starting off, I am talking to recruiters, I know which countries and areas I should be looking for jobs in.

If you know everything already, what are you doing here?
Quote:
also who said I was banking on EFL teaching to ride the gravy train?

Let's see:
Quote:
1. Getting a job with over 60k USD in total compensation per year
2. Teaching Business English to adult learners
3. Doing this while living in Latin America

This was you, wasn't it? Because I about, literally, laughed out loud when I read this. This betrays an astonishing cluelessness about the reality of teaching overseas.

Let's unpack it. First, Latin America is notoriously poorly-paying, for about all kinds of teaching. If you are seduced by some south of the border fantasy, you can apparently join the club (although it never did anything in particular for me). There's LOTS of people who want to hang out in Lima or San Jose or Santiago, it seems. Plenty of them so that whatever jobs are out there don't have to pay much of anything. This also leaves aside the fact that Spanish and English aren't so far apart compared to Arabic or Chinese, so it's easier for adults to self-study.

If you want to make good money, you are likely living someplace most people don't want to live. Supply and demand, Mr/Ms Finance Major.

Second, teaching adults is also low-paying, in almost every case. Most rich people abroad are investing in their kids first and foremost. The money is under 18s. I The number of people making 60K+ teaching adults is tiny, if there are any of them at all. If your notion of 'Business English' is some conference room filled with junior executive MBAs in $1000 suits....hahahaha, is all I can say to you. Those people can already speak English quite well. Adult level teaching is the striving classes, who are trying to get a perch on the ladder. By definition, they don't have much money. (The small exception is highly specialized jobs teaching law, accounting, engineering, aviation, oil/gas...which requires substantial practical experience in the actual field. No fresh grads need apply).

Quote:
to the point where I can consider myself an "in demand" teacher rather than a "demanding" teacher.

'In demand' means you need to offer something hard to get. Such as a proper license (yes, for teaching under 18s), or some sort of specialized graduate degree (not MATESOL or a DELTA). As far as I know, and I'm fine with being corrected, if you want 60K+ USD anywhere you need to be willing to teach under-18s, have a license (preferably in a subject, not ESL) and realistically deal with not-totally appealing locations--although you can improve those with experience, I would think. Start with Kazakhstan, work your way up towards Estonia, or perhaps...Uruguay, or Colombia. Working in L.A. isn't impossible, but what you claim to want probably is.
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