View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
panatelladavid
Joined: 10 Jun 2017 Posts: 26 Location: Wuxi
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 am Post subject: Working legally on the side? |
|
|
If I got a 15 hour a week High School job, could I request that my contract state I can work externally? E.g. evenings at a training centre.
Thus making it legal if I declare my taxes? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
teenoso
Joined: 18 Sep 2013 Posts: 365 Location: south china
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's a visa issue not a tax issue - the work visa is only for your employer (school, agent, company) so they can't give you a contract with such a clause |
|
Back to top |
|
|
panatelladavid
Joined: 10 Jun 2017 Posts: 26 Location: Wuxi
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
many thanks.
how real is this 'crack down' on people working outside of their visa? i hear lots of stories on both sides |
|
Back to top |
|
|
teenoso
Joined: 18 Sep 2013 Posts: 365 Location: south china
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This forum seems to be slowly dying with many of the regulars gone and not so many new joiners. I suspect , without any evidence , that a lot of the old-timers were 'riding the rails' here and had dodgy qualifications and not so clean criminal records, so generally the authorities have tightened up the enforcement of visa rules , and changed those rules.
Whether this affects people doing outside work , I don't know.
If you're discreet and low-key I don't think you will be found out. If you sign up with the local training school for regular classes and are used by them for publicity and demo teaching , then yes someone is probably going to be alerted and check your credentials. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011 Posts: 924 Location: China
|
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not so sure the missing old timers were a bunch of criminals hiding out in China due to a lack of checks. I'm an old timer myself, joined here in 2009 originally got bored with the negativity and came back to the boards later. Anyway, I think it's more likely people just left to go to countries where, if they make you jump through the hoops China now does, at least there are benefits when you've finished jumping. China for me was always a fine balance between the ease and relatively inexpensive process of being here versus the crap I've had to put up with in the 8 1/2 years I've been here.
In that 8 1/2 years salaries have risen at about a tenth the rate that prices have risen. Buses are still overcrowded. Pollution has stayed the same. Xenophobia has stayed the same but now I'm supposed to shell out around 5k RMB for the privilege of taking a job with a company that sees me as a piece of meat to be exploited to the maximum and discarded as soon as my value to them diminishes.
Edited to address the OP. You probably run less risk if you work for cash or Wechat transfer and don't pay the taxes, thus not bringing yourself to the attention of the authorities. Probably best to set at least 10% of it aside though so if you do get caught you can pay the back taxes, and use your savings to pay for the fine and cost of deportation. That being said, in my 8 1/2 years I've yet to hear a credible account of anyone actually being caught. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 483
|
Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
teenoso wrote: |
This forum seems to be slowly dying with many of the regulars gone and not so many new joiners. I suspect , without any evidence , that a lot of the old-timers were 'riding the rails' here and had dodgy qualifications and not so clean criminal records, so generally the authorities have tightened up the enforcement of visa rules , and changed those rules.
Whether this affects people doing outside work , I don't know.
If you're discreet and low-key I don't think you will be found out. If you sign up with the local training school for regular classes and are used by them for publicity and demo teaching , then yes someone is probably going to be alerted and check your credentials. |
More likely they've moved on with their life. Either they're still in China and not posting on dave's (gets old after a while) or they've left China. China's a great country for fun but there comes a point when the cost outweighs the benefits for most people. That's usually around when things like health or childcare become more important. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 404 Location: GZ
|
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
One can work a second job legally IF their employer signs off on it and paperwork is filed with the government. The govt wants their tax money. I looked into this awhile ago. But basically no employer is going to go through the hassle to do this with no benefit for themselves.
I think a few criminals/fake doc holders have exited China, but I suspect more people got tired of the continually increasing (and constantly changing) paperwork and bureaucracy, as Doogs pointed out.
I do disagree, however, about salaries. In the last 2-3 years salaries have taken about a 50% jump in the private sector, public middle/primary schools/ as well as many universities. If you're still making essentially the same as you made 5 years ago, you need to get out and look at other options. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
teenoso
Joined: 18 Sep 2013 Posts: 365 Location: south china
|
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
My Uni salary in 2007 was only a bit less than my present salary , and I haven't seen a general increase, at least not in the public sector. I'm working in small city and a 3y college so a low salary is off-set by a reasonable cost of living , and very limited opportunities to splurge. .
My chinese colleagues here are young and seem to be doing very well , with many living off campus and driving cars, which always baffles me given teachers' salaries are supposed to be modest . |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jknops2
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Posts: 16
|
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am working at XJTLU in Suzhou. We have gotten a clear message for foreigners, no outside work is allowed. Your visa is restricted to only work at XJTLU. We actually just fired a staff member about this. He had been doing this for years, but times have changed. It is my perception that employers need to enforce this, if they find out you have any side jobs. Since my place is a joint UK/Chinese University, they are more sensitive and follow the rules more. Also these rules might vary from among provinces. But the message here is clear, outside work is not acceptable and will get you fired.
And yes, I agree, visa rules have gotten much stricter lately, at least here in Jiangsu. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015 Posts: 712 Location: Shanghai
|
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's not rocket science, have your head screwed on and you have zero chance of having trouble doing outside work:
1. Get paid in cash or by Wechat for privates and use a discreet location if possible. Private home or office is best, restaurant or quiet coffee shop also works.
2. If you want to work for another company, work for a company that pays you into your overseas bank account. (there are several that do this here)
3. Keep a low profile. I've heard of naive teachers bragging about it to their Chinese work colleagues during their day job!
4. Don't approcah your boss/manager/principal/head teacher about it as you're putting them in a very arkward position. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kalkstein
Joined: 25 Aug 2016 Posts: 80
|
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
panatelladavid wrote: |
If I got a 15 hour a week High School job, could I request that my contract state I can work externally? Thus making it legal if I declare my taxes? |
Doesn't work like that I'm afraid, your work permit is tied to one employer and address. Even if they state it's okay for you in the contract you would still be breaching employment law in China.
panatelladavid wrote: |
how real is this 'crack down' on people working outside of their visa? i hear lots of stories on both sides |
It's real and it has been in the news for the last year or two.
teenoso wrote: |
.
My chinese colleagues here are young and seem to be doing very well , with many living off campus and driving cars, which always baffles me given teachers' salaries are supposed to be modest . |
A lot of reasons for this, for a start teaching salaries aren't that low, many of my colleagues make 5,000 as a starting salary and 10,000 when they are senior and I live in a tier 3. This is not far removed from what they pay foreign teachers. Maybe about 50% less. Many of the teachers have foreign cars that are worth at least 200,000.
Reasons for this include, their family bought their house and many of them are married to professionals in other occupations in which salaries are much higher. I find that Chinese people tend to downplay how much they earn while most foreigners exaggerate.
getbehindthemule wrote: |
have your head screwed on and you have zero chance of having trouble doing outside work |
Not true, any of your students could report you over a dispute (and I have seen this happen). So the chances are still there. They are getting higher ever year. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015 Posts: 712 Location: Shanghai
|
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kalkstein wrote: |
getbehindthemule wrote: |
have your head screwed on and you have zero chance of having trouble doing outside work |
Not true, any of your students could report you over a dispute (and I have seen this happen). So the chances are still there. They are getting higher ever year. |
Hence the keeping a low profile and having your head screwed - dont get into disputes with locals!
Agree with your take on Chinese salaries, house bought for them, partner on high salary, etc. as I have a lot of Chinese friends and family. One thing I will add which is bizarre, salaries in tier 1 cities are the same for Chinese teachers as in lower tier places. Most teachers will not see 10k or even close though, I know many experienced teachers in SH on 5 to 6.5K per month. But they do have several additional perks that FTs do not! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nimadecaomei
Joined: 22 Sep 2016 Posts: 605
|
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Another thing to consider is that Chinese public school teachers get a nice match to their real estate purchases. They often work with their family to flip the real estate, thus purchasing several properties, which are match at a percent by the government, for a nice windfall return. I have heard they get as much as a 50/50 match by the government. In that case, an 800k home could get them 400k take home within months. I am not sure about all of the ins and outs, but their are many things people can do like this to make up for a low looking salary. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Posts: 404 Location: GZ
|
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
A few things about Chinese salaries and what you "hear" Chinese teachers make. About 50% of total income in China is "Gray Money" (cash under the table) which the govt is trying to crack down on and get their tax cut. This gray money is flowing BIG TIME to Chinese teachers. Many of them of tutoring on the side, running overpriced test prep classes on the side for students (for example, before the national accounting and teaching exams). It's not illegal for them. Many also take HUGE bribes from students for grades. As well, Chinese teachers get a New Year's bonus in a red envelope which doesn't count as salary (unreported and untaxed) that can often equal 3-6 months of salary. Foreigners NEVER see this kind of perk. I currently teach at a private high school and they have a program that will pay 50,000 yuan towards a car purchase!
None of these things will you ever hear about when the Chinese teachers gripe about their paltry salary compared to yours, before heading out of the parking lot in their BMW. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015 Posts: 712 Location: Shanghai
|
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
^this
The CNY bonus is pretty standard and pretty huge for teachers here. I know teachers on 5-6k monthy salaries that get 30k for CNY in cash working public school positions!
When I negotiated my latest contract I asked for this bonus and got it, not as big as the Chinese teacher's bonus but got it nonetheless |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|