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bj80
Joined: 31 Mar 2017
Posts: 63
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 Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:05 am Post subject: Where are ESL Teachers the Most Demanded and Least Supplied |
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Hi Everyone,
Just as a brainstorm, I am wondering where supply and demand favors us the most, and least.
I would be happy to hear your views.
1. The most:
Here are places where the demand for ESL teacher's far outstrips the supply. I am not taking in pay into account. Simply where people need us.
China, especially outside the big cities.
Conflict areas, where people will study for a better life.
Southern Pacific Islands (Vanuatu, etc.)
South Korea, because they value business so much
2. The Least
England, as the accents are considered the most posh, and a competent English speaker is always within reach.
Australia, as there are many ESL businesses, programs, etc. on every corner, and Australia is a fun place to be.
USA, as ESL has always been a huge boon. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
2. The Least
England, as the accents are considered the most posh, and a competent English speaker is always within reach.
Australia, as there are many ESL businesses, programs, etc. on every corner, and Australia is a fun place to be.
USA, as ESL has always been a huge boon. |
In other words, in countries where English is the native language.....you can add Canada to this list. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:38 am Post subject: Supplied |
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| bj80 wrote: |
Simply where people need us.
....
Conflict areas, where people will study for a better life. |
Keep in mind, the majority of English language teachers in "conflict" areas tend to be capable, qualified nationals. |
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Unheard Utterance
Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 55
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Supplied |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| bj80 wrote: |
Simply where people need us.
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Conflict areas, where people will study for a better life. |
Keep in mind, the majority of English language teachers in "conflict" areas tend to be capable, qualified nationals. |
Care to elaborate with examples? My limited experience in post-conflict countries at least would be as such: the locals have no idea how to teach and the local students want out. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Supplied |
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| Unheard Utterance wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| bj80 wrote: |
Simply where people need us.
....
Conflict areas, where people will study for a better life. |
Keep in mind, the majority of English language teachers in "conflict" areas tend to be capable, qualified nationals. |
Care to elaborate with examples? My limited experience in post-conflict countries at least would be as such: the locals have no idea how to teach and the local students want out. |
The OP referred to regions/countries experiencing conflict and not those post-conflict. Big difference. There are capable English teachers (nationals) in volatile areas of the Mid East and in Afghanistan, for example. |
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Unheard Utterance
Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 55
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Supplied |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Unheard Utterance wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| bj80 wrote: |
Simply where people need us.
....
Conflict areas, where people will study for a better life. |
Keep in mind, the majority of English language teachers in "conflict" areas tend to be capable, qualified nationals. |
Care to elaborate with examples? My limited experience in post-conflict countries at least would be as such: the locals have no idea how to teach and the local students want out. |
The OP referred to regions/countries experiencing conflict and not those post-conflict. Big difference. There are capable English teachers (nationals) in volatile areas of the Mid East and in Afghanistan, for example. |
Fair enough. I wonder why positions for foreign teachers are advertised at places such as Kabul University. Whatever the money, no thanks. Dealing with PTSD is hard enough than having terrorists running around or being in a war zone. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Unheard Utterance wrote: |
| Fair enough. I wonder why positions for foreign teachers are advertised at places such as Kabul University. |
I've worked in a war zone, so yes, there will still be ads for foreign teachers -- life goes on as best as it can. However, those ads don't always target westerners. There's generally not a high demand like the OP intimated. Additionally, not every teaching job in a conflict area pays a lot, nor is there a healthy supply of western teachers available and willing to accept those roles.
Those of us who experienced the Arab Spring first hand some years back can recall how the situation turned sour throughout the MENA. In my case, we would hear gunfire at night and sounds of protesters rioting. The military presence was strong in an effort to curb the violence. Students and staff were unable to leave their homes for safety reasons, and therefore, schools closed. Embassies either advised their citizens to leave or mandated that they depart immediately. So no, conflict areas don't equate to a high demand for foreign teachers.
. |
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Unheard Utterance
Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 55
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| I think there’d be a decent demand in certain post-conflict countries, though. Foreign governments love splashing the aid cash around in the hope of “nation building” in order to have political influence. The private sector would be inundated in foreign tax payer money for building capacity, as would possibly be the local military, especially if that country has its military involved in UN deployments. I’ve experienced this before first-hand, but I’m doing my best to get out of these sorts of places. |
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bj80
Joined: 31 Mar 2017
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: |
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To me, I was just more concerned about when do supply and demand laws work to the favor of ESL teachers, and when do they work against us?
1. In terms of for ESL teachers, China seems the big market.
200 million people would love an English teacher.
Only about 2 million foreigners, and the process is fairly cumbersome.
Chinese management often mismanages or does other things to make sure truly good labor does not last long term, as we see in some other areas.
2. In terms of pay per hour, any place with oil, etc. seems to do well. $50 USD per teaching hour seems the norm in Arab oil states, Russian oil towns, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Brunei, etc.
Depending on the teacher's proficiency, they could get even more clients if necessary.
3. As far as supply side goes, of course we can see that places with plenty of native speakers (including our countries of US, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, South Africa) etc. have the most supply. It is very easy to find a supplemental, substitute, replacement, etc.
4. Can anyone counter me or add to my notions? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bj80 wrote: |
| In terms of pay per hour, any place with oil, etc. seems to do well. $50 USD per teaching hour seems the norm in Arab oil states, Russian oil towns, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Brunei, etc. |
Where are you getting this information? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 2. In terms of pay per hour, any place with oil, etc. seems to do well. $50 USD per teaching hour seems the norm in Arab oil states, Russian oil towns, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Brunei, etc. |
Uh, "any place with oil" includes the US gulf states, Alberta, Canada.... |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 2. In terms of pay per hour, any place with oil, etc. seems to do well. $50 USD per teaching hour seems the norm in Arab oil states, Russian oil towns, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Brunei, etc. |
Uh, "any place with oil" includes the US gulf states, Alberta, Canada.... |
Ecuador, Venezuela ...  |
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bj80
Joined: 31 Mar 2017
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I was just speaking from personal experience and seeing paychecks.
MENA Gulf Countries (Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Libya and sometimes Oman) pay better than many other places. Also, Bahrain, oil towns in Russia, Azerbaijian, etc. also pay well.
Pay per teaching hour was highest in these places (often $50 USD per teaching hour, tax free). If there was private tutoring, all the better. Also, those lucrative $80K USD per year, or even double that, could be found there. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| bj80 wrote: |
I was just speaking from personal experience and seeing paychecks.
....
Pay per teaching hour was highest in these places (often $50 USD per teaching hour, tax free). If there was private tutoring, all the better. Also, those lucrative $80K USD per year, or even double that, could be found there. |
That's doubtful unless you can name specific employers. Otherwise, you're misleading readers.
Not all oil TEFL jobs are created equal. Plus, demand for these types of positions have been on the decline, especially in the Mid East. |
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zootalaws
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bj80 wrote: |
To me, I was just more concerned about when do supply and demand laws work to the favor of ESL teachers, and when do they work against us?
1. In terms of for ESL teachers, China seems the big market.
200 million people would love an English teacher.
Only about 2 million foreigners, and the process is fairly cumbersome.
Chinese management often mismanages or does other things to make sure truly good labor does not last long term, as we see in some other areas.
2. In terms of pay per hour, any place with oil, etc. seems to do well. $50 USD per teaching hour seems the norm in Arab oil states, Russian oil towns, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Brunei, etc.
Depending on the teacher's proficiency, they could get even more clients if necessary.
3. As far as supply side goes, of course we can see that places with plenty of native speakers (including our countries of US, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, South Africa) etc. have the most supply. It is very easy to find a supplemental, substitute, replacement, etc.
4. Can anyone counter me or add to my notions? |
Brunei certainly doesn't pay even close to USD50/hr. Not that anyone is paid hourly. Salaried positions are the go.
More like GBP25k/year in the government schools, a third to half less than that in the private Chinese schools, a bit more in the private international schools.
No tax, but COL isn't that cheap for SE Asia. Expect to pay ~GBP500-600/month for rent, 50 for internet, 350-500 for food
Cars are expensive and poor quality for second hand, eye-watering for new.
There is little ESL work - it's all primary and secondary schools teaching normal school curriculum. |
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