Job Discussion Forums

[kev7161]

So, I have a little rant here. Please bear with me:

This term I have about 300 students in 11 different groups. I am contracted to teach 18 periods per week (office hours at my leisure) and currently I am scheduled 19 periods. I am not obliged to work the overtime period(s) and, based on what they pay for OT (50rmb per period), I'm not going to take that extra one. Why am I not going to bend and do it? Glad you asked!

I told my school that 300 students is way too much when it comes to a "spoken English" class. Some classes have well over 30 students in them. Plus, just the amount of organizing and paper grading can become daunting. Our FAO arranged to have 1 and "a half" teachers for the Senior department this year (the half taking a few classes here and a few classes in the Junior department). The school failed to hire enough teachers by the beginning of the school year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to teach my full 18 periods, but it is discouraging when I'm facing such a huge amount of students (especially as I'll have a whole bunch of new faces with the Senior One students). All the other FTs here have maybe 3 or 4 different classes with anywhere from 70 to 100 students total. Also, as of yesterday, my computer wasn't hooked up (yet all the other Chinese teachers in my office have theirs going strong), my textbooks for this year have yet to be purchased, and it looks like I'm going to be in charge of cleaning out my own classroom and getting it ready (we moved to a different building this year - 5th floor - gawd!). In the meantime, all the other Chinese teachers (each of who teach about 10 periods per week + some office hours; but really not too many office hours!) were completely ready to go as of Day One (yesterday). I feel like, although my salary is more generous than Chinese teachers, I'm still low man on the pole when it comes to getting things done around here.

Okay, I'm done . . . for now.

[T_Lanc]

[shenyanggerry]

If they want you to test the Ss individually, no problem. Three to four minutes each IN CLASS. With that many Ss, you'll take the last month of class for oral exams. If they don't like it, ask them how they'd like it done.

I have a couple of hundred Ss. I test them at mid-term and at the end. I manage to squeeze it into two classes each time. It works for me and I haven't heard any complaints from the department. They have signed a contract with me for spring term 2005. They must be satisfied.

[Guest]

I have 800 students per week at the moment, until the new Teacher arrives in a couple of weeks, then it will drop down to 400. I agree that it is a lot, mainly because I only get to see each of them for 40 minutes each week.

I do question exactly what I can teach them in such a short time, but the Chinese set the rules, and if they are happy we just have to give it our best shot and try and make an impact on these children. If nothing else, we can make English fun and stir up their interest in learning it.

Good luck

[kev7161]

Not really looking for sympathy rather it's just the sheer lack of organization that everywhere I go seems to have (for those of you that remember my summer job woes). The amount of students is a thorn in my side, but the main gripe is that EVERYONE in my department was ready to go except for me and I wonder why that is? It's not as if I hadn't worked here last year and I had all my stuff still here ready for my return (I was on vacation in the US up to August 31st). If we hadn't changed buildings, I wouldn't have this gripe - - I'm sure (most) everything would have been smoother sailing.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Let's get something straight:

Most of us are not teachers.

Yes, you read correctly.

We are gimmicks to draw in students.

If we work in a private institute, we are cash-making machines. And Rhonda DEAR GOD 800 students and you get only 3500 a month?

Let's assume each kid is 100 RMB a month. That is 80,000 RMB for your boss and 3500 RMB for you. Hardly seems fair...

Back to the point I was trying to make:

Kev, are you teaching older kids, as in high school or university? Or are these little kids? Older kids tend to sleep in class anyways, so I wouldn't be so worried if they were older.

But if you're like me and teach classes from 35-45 students ages from 7-13, it can be a bit more of a difficult teaching act.

T-Lanc: 80 students? They're college kids, yes? I couldn't even imagine teaching 80 7 year-old kids in one class without a Chinese teaching assistant in each corner of the room, and even then....

Kev, ask your boss straight up why you are the last one to have his computer up and ready. Ask them if they value you less than other staff. Maybe you can't, or don't feel comfortable to do such a thing (I sure as hell would though!).

If all else fails, take your boss' wife out to dinner. Things get done faster that way for some reason.

[JimmyJam]

i'm teaching at a univeristy..

english majors, 5 groups, sophomores, 30 students maximum
average of 12 hours per week (wednesdays & fridays off and weekends)
extra work is 100 rmb per hour.. base 3,500
paid summer and winter breaks plus 2,200rmb and return airfare

kev, 50 rmb is too low for that kind of extra work.. don't kill yourself

[Roger]

30 students per class? Man, you are being pampered and spoilt! 40 is the MINIMUM! 50 is common, and 70 isn't too rare. Even 100 per class is possible!
Your complaints will fall on deaf ears among the Chinese! They don't understand your point of view.
They don't teach INDIVIDUALS. They teach their CLASSES. Classes work in a "communitarian" way - all together pulling on one side, the teacher on the opposite side. That's how the Chinese 'teach'.

You can never reach the whole class; make do with the minority that tries to lap up what you are offering them.
And, if you are clueless as to what to do with such "large" classes - I don't bother asking them to "talk" or "discuss" things; I wan listen and to understand every word that's being said. That's a very tall order for most. How to improve their listening skills? I give them dictations of jokes or stories in simplified English. I am not after writing per se - if they understand the gist of a story - which the seldom do! - then we won't have to write it down. But the fact is that even university students with ten years of formal classroom English can't aurally handle short speeches containing words from a vocabulary limited to the 1800 most commonly used lexical items! They can't handle different grammar functions either. So writing down these stories - including giving them exact puncutations - helps them get grounded in how we form sentences, and how we organise sentences into text bodies. They need this kind of guiding to develop a feel for the language. And this is one of the activities I have successfully done for years with Chinese classes of every level above primary school classes.
A tip: Have one of those guys come to the board in front of the class and write the dictation there - for all the rest of them to see; after each sentence have them go over it and correct mistakes. Have students point those mistakes out.

[struelle]

Wow, looks like the new year is really gearing up! I kind of missed the boat on this, given what happened in the last two weeks, but it's not a big concern. When I get back to Shanghai next week, it won't be hard to find jobs.

That said, teaching 30 students is a tough one, but it can work well if you see them regularly, say, a few times each week. If you're teaching 11 seperate groups, though, it's much more difficult to make any kind of breakthroughs with them.

My last job had small class sizes (20) which was good, but for a period of 3 months, I was the only FT in a school of more than 700 students. It worked out that I cycled through over 40 classes which took a MONTH before seeing the same classes agin.

Fortunately there was both Senior 1 and Senior 2 in that cycle which meant two different lesson plans. But can you imagine teaching the same lesson plan 20 times in a row? At least it was tweaked so many times that the last students got the best part of it.

Steve

[JimmyJam]

I used to have 65 students max.. they joined two classes together.. but i boycotted the classes and did not appear until they reduce them to 30 max. after a week, i've got what i wanted since then... besides, I told them that they seem to be ignorant of a basic Oral English TEACHING PEDAGOGY. upon hearing the word PEDAGOGY they asked me what it means.. hahaha.. the other Foreign Teachers here now still have some classes having more than 50 students.. They teach writing while I teach Oral English.
Here in most Universities in Changchun, it's 30 max students per class, 16 hours max per week. I think the reason why this is so is because most FTs, belong to a network and we are clear with our basic demands about teaching ang living conditions. There seems to be a collective agreement here among FT's and FAOs know about it...

The only drawback here is the biting cold winter...

[Seth]

i assume you're still at hua mei school? as you may realize by now i'm not going to be there anytime soon. i was considering it but decided that there's more bad there than good. maybe not bad, per se, but frustrating.

i taught 20 periods a week, all of my classes had over 35 students and i had no co-teacher. when i brought this to the attention of the FAO they'd only drag their feet and say 'don't worry about it.' it's mostly because the chinese teachers are as stressed as we are (probably more) and don't get paid for the time they co-teach with us.

when sars hit a lot of kids went home...some of my classes had only 10 students left. it was a dream come true.

i also don't think you're paid more than the chinese teachers at hua mei...i've heard that they're paid roughly the same as the FTs. Ray wang himself makes about 10k a month. but don't tell anyone i told you that!

[kev7161]

It's day 3 and not much has changed - - little baby steps. Still no textbooks (and they're still mulling it over on whether or not I'll get any), but I'll just get a copy of the workbooks (I already have the teacher's text and student text) and just make THREE HUNDRED copies a day of things I need. I'm sure they'll see the light very soon.

Computer still not working. I don't need it yet, but will in about 3 weeks for creating their first test.

Senior One kids are out doing military maneuvers or something, so it's not too hectic . . . yet.

The kids here pay 28,000 a year to attend this school. I know there are salaries, maintenance, food, equipment and so on that this covers, but I figure that about 3 of my 300 students pays for my salary and other expenses here for the full year.

I did finally get a key to my "classroom" (more like a closet actually, but it's mine, all mine!!!!) and I was told some of the students will clean it out this afternoon . . . call me skeptical, but . . .

As I don't have the Senior One kids yet, that extra 19th period is not an issue until next week. I'll be curious to see how they try to handle it. I told my supervisor (Ray) that I would take it for an extra 300 rmb per lesson. He just laughed. The funny thing is that when I was negotiating my contract last term, I asked for more than the 50rmb they were offering for overtime (I think I asked for 100) and they declined it. Yesterday I was told that, if I took the extra class (thus alleviating headaches for them), they could see their way to paying a little more. I reminded him of our contract negotiations and politely declined.

[Seth]

i think the reason most schools can be unreasonably stingy is that they don't fully get the concept of corporations, business accounts, or investment. in their view, any money you make comes directly out of the boss's paycheck. i had to haggle over things like a 26 yuan ream of paper.

[senor boogie woogie]

Hola!

I interviewed at Hua Mei twice and decided I did not want the job. It just did not pay enough money and it was way outside of Hangzhou. I also did not want to live at the school, I value my independence.

I liked the amusement park and especially White House (like the one in Washington DC) and indoor theatre. I was told that one of the wealthiest men in Zhejiang owns the school.

I passed an American teacher with a few Chinese passing by. I said hello, but he seemed to walk off, not greeting me or anything. I thought he was a jerk. I happened to see him later near my apartments and he told me that he was not allowed to speak with me, because he would of told me his personal opinions of Hua Mei.

This school could easily pay 10,000 RMB a month. 50 RMB for overtime? Come on!

Senor

[kev7161]

Oh, you should have met me (well, that was probably BEFORE I actually started working here!) - - I don't mind telling people what's what. Now, I rant about this school from time to time, but I'm sure it's not as bad as some schools I've read about here. It's not a GREAT school either, but . . .

I find it curious that the FAO never includes a FT in the interview/selection process. Actually, the reason I'm here a second year is 3-fold: 1) A nice raise (certainly not to 10,000 though), 2) Love (most) of my kids, 3) I was too lazy and couldn't be bothered with moving all my stuff to another school - - especially since I'm 95% certain I'll be going back home to the US next year.

Still no computer, info on period 19, classroom, or textbooks. Day 5 . . .