Job Discussion Forums

[small_human]

I would be very interested to hear people's impressions of Indonesian students. Of course it depends on the individual but... could you generalise a little just to give me an idea?

My previous experience was with Japanese students (all ages). I found them (generalising here) to be a bit challenging, very hesitant to speak out.

So, how are Indonesians? Enthusiastic? Well-behaved? Shy?

Tell me about your experiences (please)!

Regards,

S.human

[ls650]

[leeroy]

Not to take away anything from ls650s comments, but I experienced quite the opposite. This isn't to say that all students in Indonesia are like this, naturally...

For a year, I taught spoilt (ethnically-Chinese) rich kids in North Jakarta. They were spirit-crushingly dull, concerned only with the materialistic comforts that mommy and daddy could provide (phones etc...). Most had no genuine desire to speak English - they only came to school because their livees were so monotonous and sheltered that looking at a foreigner three times a week was considered great entertainment. They were interested in playing games and text messages - in a year I don't think anyone ever asked me a question about the English language.

This section of the community considered itself quite separate to "Indonesia", they even referred to themselves as Chinese and, I suspect, considered themselves ethnically superior. It was certainly implied whenever they started ranting about the "stupid normal Indonesians".

They were spookily "Chinese" actually, when I compare them to my Chinese students here in London now. Not many had opinions about anything, they were materially rich but spiritually devoid. Black people were bad, homosexuals were going to hell and the shopping mall was the only thing worth doing at the weekend.

Happily, though, most Indonesians are not like this (and, I would guess, most Indonesian students are not like this either). I got out of Jakarta for the second year and experienced students more like how the previous poster has described.

[KCA420]

edit!

[El Llama]

So, to recap: Indonesian students are outgoing yet closed-minded, fun yet spirit-crushingly dull and do nothing except hang out at the mall. Sounds about right to me.

I've been out here for 2 years and have had some great classes with fun, lively students who would stay after class to ask further questions we hadn't had time to deal with. Then there have been classes who expected me to place the English language into their brains with no effort on their part. I have also had kids I would have cheerfully throttled.

Is it different anywhere in the world?

El Llama

[KCA420]

edit

[small_human]

I was interested to hear your description of the classes you taught to rich ethnic Chinese students, Leeroy. Actually, what you mentioned sounded similar to what I experienced in Japan.

I was really hoping to get away from the rampant materialism I encountered in Tokyo on a daily basis. It's all fine and well that people are interested in expensive brand name goods and fashions, but for me being in a classroom with people who care about nothing else is a soul destroying experience.

After three years I felt I had to go somewhere else to get back some of the faith I had lost in human kind. So... I have chosen Indonesia because it has a fascinating culture and I've heard some really great things about the local people.

I don't expect too much from any teaching job and I've got no major problems with 'edutainment' so I don't foresee any serious issues. Still, Leeroy's and KAC420's comments made me stop and wonder for a moment...

Have other people experienced bored rich kids (ethnic Chinese or 'normal' Indonesian) in their classrooms in Indonesia? Is it really common to teach these types of students (seeing as they have the money and can afford to take lessons)?

[leeroy]

small_human - I had exceptionally bad luck, most schools (and teachers) in Indonesia have far better classes.

Still, most of the schools that "bules" (westerners) work for cater exclusively for rich kids, with a few of the higher-end ones doing corporate stuff. The reason for this is simple economics, there isn't much of a middle class in Indonesia and the lower classes (who still retain some of that "culture" to which you refer!) hardly have enough cash around to start paying for English lessons.

There is always a danger that you'll be lumped with Chinese students if you head for Jakarta, but once you venture further afield the odds are more and more likely that you'll encounter "real" Indonesians. The rich ones may be similarly materialistic (and, often, shallow) - but at least they're fun and talkative! This is more than can be said for a lot of Japanese students, I believe...

[gugelhupf]

Aside from the bored rich kids, there are other reasons why students end up in English classes essentially against their will. Parents who are strongly muslim (even if the kid isn't!) often regard evening classes as a safe means of occupying their progeny and so prevent them from getting into any serious mischief. This is particularly true for teenage girls.

There is no reason why a good teacher shouldn't be able to engage and motivate even those students who are learning English under parental pressure, but the odds might be against you in the early stages. Generally though, all Indo-Malay (including Bugis, Sundanese, Javanese etc etc) people are fairly gregarious and outgoing and not afraid to express an opinion or join a discussion. Relations between these 'Pribumis' and the ethnic Chinese minority can be a touchy subject, and one I don't feel qualified to pontificate about, but suffice to say there are large cultural differences between the two groups.

[Bedevilled]

I have been taking a poll in my classes. It would be interesting to see if you all got the same response I did. This is the question I asked them:

"How many of you have ever climbed a tree?"

I only had two who responded 'yes'. One of them was my only native Indonesian student.

On the same token... instead of whining about how the kids are spiritualy raping you... why don't you try volunteering a couple of hours a week of your time to the kids who do want to learn but can't afford it. You all chose to work there.. stop complaining and do something to give back to the community in which you live.

[gugelhupf]

[small_human]

Sorry Bedevilled, I didn't understand what you were getting at when you said only two of your students had climbed a tree before (and one of them was native Indonesian).

[Bedevilled]

uhhh..... small_human.... you know tree... those big plant-like things with leaves...

Not quite sure it is what you don't understand... it was probably the not having spelled out the link between the sheltered lives of the chinese-indonesian kids and their having never climbed a tree... I was hoping you would have been able to come up with that one on your own. Everyone else seems to have.

[small_human]

Bedevilled,

Thank you for your condescending answer.

I guess I was a bit slow on the up-take because I've never equated not having climbed a tree with leading a sheltered life.

I apologise for my inability to make that leap of logic. Obviously, I too am someone who has not done enough tree climbing.

Regards,

Small_human

[Bedevilled]

I try to do what I can for those of you who are ... shall we say... intellectually inconvenienced. hahahahaha. just kidding. But i do have some advice for you:

Go climb a tree! It'll do you a world of good.