Job Discussion Forums

[km]

Hi there, i'm coming to Taipei from the uk but i've found from one of the schools i've been e mailing that even though i have my 60 day visa, i will still have to do a visa run to HK and apply outside Taiwan for a resident visa. Has anyone else heard about this? Apparently these new rules come into force from the 1st october.

[steeevieboy]

yes, it's true. that's what I've been hearing on forumosa.com as well

[Aristotle]

Rules and regulations on Taiwan are not enforced or implemented in any consistent way, shape or form. They are often changed dramatically on a case by case basis.
My best advice is to come here and work it out from Taiwan.
Good luck,
A.

[TaoyuanSteve]

I recommend that you check out www.forumosa.com

They have forums dealing with visa and legal matters. You'll likely get more informed opinions there.

[Fortigurn]

Here's what happened when I went to HK on a visa run to apply for a 60 day visa:

• I handed them the usual letter from the employer, and requested a 60 day visa
  
  
• I was told that I was not permitted to apply for a 60 day visa, since a 60 day visa is for tourist purposes and I was clearly not a tourist
  
  
• I replied that I had been sent by my school to obtain a 60 day visa for the specific purpose of applying for an ARC, and that the letter explained everything
  
  
• They told me that my letter was wrong, and that I was applying for a tourist visa under false pretences
  
  
• They then told me that I had to apply for a resident visa or an employment visa
  
  
• Then they told me that I needed a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
  
  
• I replied that I had been told that in order to receive the work permit letter, I needed the visa
  
  
• They told me that the reverse was true - in order to receive the visa, I needed the work permit letter
  
  
• I asked them what I was supposed to do now
  
  
• They told me that I was supposed to obtain a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan, and they would process an employment or resident visa
  
  
• I asked them how long it would take for a work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan to be processed
  
  
• They told me it would take 7 days
  
  
• I said fine, asked for my passport back, and told them I would return with the letter
  
  
• They informed me that they were witholding my passport, and that they were not going to permit me to return to Taiwan without an employment or resident visa
  
  
• I asked them if they expected me to stay in HK until I had somehow obtained the work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan (which I clearly could not visit without leaving HK)
  
  
• They said yes, that was the idea
  
  
• I asked if there was any visa I could use to return to Taiwan, in order to apply for and obtain this work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
  
  
• They informed me that there was - either the employment visa or the resident visa (for either of which, I required the work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan)
  
  
• Since this was clearly impossible, I asked if I could return to Taiwan on any kind of tourist visa in order to apply for and obtain this work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan
  
  
• They informed me that there was no way they would issue a tourist visa to someone who was clearly intending to work, since I would be a applying for a tourist visa under false pretences

At this point I could see why they were separated from me by bullet proof glass.

The end of the story is that I begged, pleaded, and cajoled, and was permitted to return to Taiwan using my visa-free status, on the condition that I return in 30 days with my work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan.

This whole business took 2 days, 2 trips to the visa office, 3 hours of waiting, and cost NT $6,000, at the end of which I still didn't have a visa.

My school was totally incensed (not at me, at them), particularly because they hadn't been informed by anyone as to this change of procedure, and has since sorted matters out for me.

I should be able to return at the end of this month and pick up resident visas for both my wife and I (the NT $6,000 we have already spent will be credited to us for this purpose).

Apologies in advance for not knowing the correct terminology - I suspect 'work permit letter from the Labour Council in Taiwan' may not be strictly accurate, but that's how they described it.

This post of mine is also in a thread on Formosa here, where this issue is being discussed in detail.

[Aristotle]

Unfortunately the visa application process is in a state of transition. For reasons I can only speculate( racism and corruption) there are certain people in high bureaucratic positions that encourage these kinds of problems.
These kinds of ignorant policies can go on for years before someone at a higher level intervenes. I would go so far as to speculate that because of this new policy and many other factors there will be a sudden decline in the number of teachers on Taiwan in the near and distant future.

[Taylor]

Dear Readers,

As Aristotle pointed out, he is expecting "a sudden decline in the number of teachers on Taiwan in the near and distant future." This may be exactly what they want--in order to allow more jobs for locals.

I think American universities are doing the same thing. They realize that if too many Americans have degrees (and can't find good jobs), that the whole idea of needing a college degree will be threatened. So, they simply create mazes of bureaucracy that you only see after you have applied. Only the most dedicated will be willing to tolerate the madness.

Fortigurn, your patience is to be admired. You seem to have played the game very well. How did it only cost you NT$6000???

Only once have I been treated well in Hong Kong at the "quasi-embassy." It was right around the time President Chen was elected. I think those Taiwanese people working in Hong Kong were afraid of losing their jobs--so I received a virtual 'red carpet' that day over 4 years ago.

Let's keep posting so that others can have some idea about the proposed changes effective Oct. 1.

Best wishes!!!

Taylor

[Fortigurn]

[Fortigurn]

Subjected to a rigorous security search (involving leaving our large luggage outside the building, the handsearch of every other bag we were carrying, and the confiscation of our mobile phone and all other electronic devices, including a small alarm clock and all three of our cameras), we eventually made our way through a maze of corridors and stairs, to the relevant office.

Here we were faced with another disaster - the US consulate refused to certify our marriage certificate, on the grounds that it was an Australian document, not a US document. We pointed out that the document had already been certified by the US consulate in Taiwan (and showed them the certification, complete with consular seal), but they dismissed this as aberrant behaviour.

We also pointed out that the visa office at Chungwa Travel had insisted that we have this document certified by the US consulate in Hong Kong, but they dismissed this also, telling us that Chungwa Travel didn't know what they were talking about, and were frequently sending people to the US consulate with wrong advice.

This did not improve our spirits, and we were now left in yet another classic catch 22 situation, the kind with which Chinese burearacracy seems to delight in entangling us. We took taxi number three for the day back to Chungwa Travel, and Dee went in to confront them while I stayed and minded the luggage. Dee informed the woman behind the counter of our fruitless experience, and asked 'What now?'. The woman was very confused, and told Dee that she would have to wait for her supervisor to return in order to receive more accurate information.

Of course, he was at lunch, and Dee had to wait an hour. The supervisor finally arrived, and Dee was cheerfully informed that she had yet again been given wrong information, and that in fact we would have to go to the Australian consulate in Hong Kong to have the document certified.

Unfortunately Chungwa Travel had no idea where the Australian consulate was, so they couldn't give us an address. Very helpfully (or not, depending on your point of view), they did give us the consulate's phone number. We left the building for the third time that day, and hired taxi number four. Happily, the drive knew the address of the Australian consulate, and dropped us off after a short trip (these taxi rides were only costing us about $5 AU on average, but they were starting to mount up).

Our experience at the Australian consulate was probably the best of the entire day. The security check was no less thorough than that we had experienced at the US consulate, but the security staff (local Chinese), were extremely polite and most apologetic for the inconvenience. They were very interested in our moon cakes, but declined Dee's rather desparate offer to take them off our hands permanently (the moon cakes were something of an inconvenience during the entire day, and we weren't at all sure that they would last in the heat).

[Fortigurn]

The staff behind the counter processed our certification without any questions or difficulties, and charged us less than the US consulate in Taiwan had. On our departure, the security staff helped us repack, apologised again for the inconvenience, and listened with some interest (and great sympathy), to the story of our visa troubles.

They were most suprised at the change in Taiwan's visa policy, and totally amazed at the incompetence of Chungwa Travel. We found their conversation on this topic most refreshing. We were in and out of the Australian consulate in 15 minutes, and left feeling a lot stronger.

Taxi number five took us back to Chungwa Travel, and Dee gritted her teeth as she set off once more to the 40th floor, while I remained camped in the lobby with our luggage. By this time it was getting late, and we were extremely concerned about the possibility that we wouldn't even be able to get our Taiwan visa application finished by the end of the day. This would delay matters yet another day, and make it altogether impossible for us to apply for our Chinese visas.

With 15 minutes to go before 5pm, I was relieved to see Dee return after a full hour, and crossed my fingers hoping that all had gone well. It had. There had been a moment of extreme tension at the point when Dee had presented the certified copy of our marriage certificate (she had been told that the certified copy was stamped, but not sealed - the woman behind the counter was uncertain that this form of certification would be acceptable, believing that it required a consular seal instead).

Dee had expressed her frustration with such hair splitting, and the woman decided to check with her supervisor that the stamp would be sufficient - much to Dee's relief, it was.

Now at long last, and three trips to Hong Kong, our resident visa applications for Taiwan had been completed, and we would be able to pick them up at 1pm on the following day. But various complications with our Chinese visas now arose, as a direct result of the time we had spent being fooled about by Chungwa Travel.

[Fortigurn]

The following day, we would have to pick up our Taiwan resident visas, together with our passports, at 1pm (hoping that Chungwa Travel wouldn't be late with them). We would then have to take ourselves to a Chinese visa office in order to apply for our Chinese visas.

We were leaving on the Thursday, and so would technically have two days to have the visas processed. Wednesday was going to be a public holiday, due to Mid-Autumn Festival. This meant that we would have to apply for the express visa service which would get us our visas 'overnight', applying for them on the Tuesday afternoon and picking them up on the Thursday.

There were two very serious issues with this arrangement:

• The express service cost significantly more than the two day service - almost double in fact - and would completely wipe us out financially (not that we had much of a choice).
  
  
  
• Our flight for Kunming was departing in the early afternoon, at 12:15pm, and we would therefore have to be able to pick up our Chinese visas (together with our passports), on the Thursday mornings. But the standard time for an express 'overnight' visa application was 'from afternoon to afternoon', meaning that we would only be able to pick them up at 2pm on the Thursday - one hour and forty five minutes an hour after our flight to Kunming departed.

Our flight to Kunming could not be changed at such short notice - the carrier we were with only made one flight to Kunming each day, and we knew that the flights on the subsequent days were already fully booked anyway - so unless some kind of miracle happened, we knew that we were in very deep trouble.

It was clear that Tuesday was going to be a very tense day. Would Chungwa travel have our visas and passports ready at 1pm? Would we be able to get to the Chinese visa office before 2pm in order to apply for the express service? Would the visa office be able to process our Chinese visas before we left on Thursday afternoon? We passed a very restless Monday night.

On the Tuesday morning, we fortified ourselves with a frugal breakfast of grains and dairy, calmed ourselves with an hour or so of classical reading, and set off with grim determination to Chungwa travel (by foot, now that we were so familiar with the city).

Our first indication that today was going to be a completely different experience to the previous disaster, was the fact that Chungwa Travel had our visas and passports ready a full hour before we had anticipated.
Clasping them to us with gratitude, we left as quickly as possible, shaking the dust off our feet as we did so, and walked back to our mate's apartment to decide on our next course of action.

We were extremely wary of taking our passports and visas out with us, especially having gone through so much to get those visas, but we had no choice, so we left at our mate's place every other important document which we thought we could reasonably abandon, and took a taxi to the Chinese visa office.

Much to our surprise, their office wasn't in the least crowded (Chungwa Travel frequently had over 40 people crammed into their little office, and over 60 people on a couple of occasions, with people standing against the walls and sitting on the floor), and we were served promptly. We were initially gravely concerned with the news that if we applied for an overnight visa we wouldn't be able to pick it up until after our flight had left on the Thursday afternoon, and some panic on our part ensued.

However, the lovely people at the Chinese visa office informed us that we could apply for the ultra-express same day visa service, and they would only charge us the overnight rate. It seemed that they were taking the Mid-Autumn Festival holiday into account, and were providing the faster service for a cheaper price in order to compensate for the inconvenience of a lost business day.

The cost of our visas was still twice as much as it would have been if we had managed to apply for them on Monday (and pick them up on Thursday morning), but since we had resigned ourselves to that cost, we certainly weren't complaining about this stroke of good fortune. We were told that we could pick up our visas at 5:30pm that evening - in fact, they were ready at 5pm, and we headed back to our mate's place, extremely thankful to what we considered must have been Divine intervention in our affairs. Every prayer of ours expressed on the night before had been answered.

[Taylor]

Hey Fortigurn,

Thanks for taking the time to post!

Tell us a bit about your background, if possible. Is it that you and your wife are both native speakers?....both applying for work visas?

My wife is from Taiwan, but I am still unsure about the effect of infamous changes of Oct. 1. I've checked out forumosa.com but it seemed a bit difficult to navigate. Can anyone give us the nitty-gritty?

I bet you will remember that experience in Hong Kong every time you see a Moon Cake now!!!

Hope to hear from you again.

Taylor
Texas/Taiwan

[Fortigurn]