Job Discussion Forums

denvin · Joined: 29 Sep 2004 Posts: 2

I'm from the US, have a BA, and am new to teaching. I'm looking to go to China, and from all my research, have found no clear path. Some people go through agencies, some find it on their own. Trying to wade through this process, I have been talking with JourneyEast.org aka Business English Solutions International, LLC. Going through an agency seems to be a nice place to start (at least through the first year), as they take you through the process (placement, salary negotiation, visa). Or is it? Journey East charges a little over $1300 US (with BA), and that gets you out there, placed and supported for the length of the contract. But, that's a one way ticket, and the flight reimbursement from the school for completing the contract goes toward a flight home, not for a round trip ticket, or the initial layout. If something happens and the contract can't be completed, for whatever reason, you've got to pay for the flight out. I think I understand that, on your own, the reimbursement is for your round trip ticket, initially bought to get you over there. Am I misunderstanding this?

Well, for this and other things, can anyone offer any input about JourneyEast.org? What about other agencies? Recommend any? It seems with agencies you can't really negotiate salary with a particular school like you could on your own. True, or not? It seems that going over for the first time it would be nice to have the backing of an agency, especially one that sticks with you. At this point, I'm have trouble figuring out how to go about it all without one. Or is it easier then I'm finding?

So, is the investment in an agency worth it?

Thanks. I'd appreciate any comments on this.

tigerlily20202 · Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 40

i don't think anything anyone told me before i came to china prepared me for it, to be honest. i didn't come here through an agency, exactly; i got my position through somebody who had taught here before. i received plenty of information about what to expect and how things worked before i came. and honestly, even with this person back home as a contact and having other foreigners around, figuring out the admistration, getting what i need from my school, and not to mention the culture shock has been pretty hard.

I really haven't been here long, so maybe I'm not the best person to advise you, but from what I've seen of people that have come here on programs or through agencies, it doesn't seem that they're any better off. i'd say most of them are being ripped off. you're not only beholden to your agency, you're beholden to your school. In one situation a teacher I know who came through an agency hadn't been paid for about two months, and the program he was with didn't really do anything about it. My impressions of China are that you need to be pretty self-reliant to keep it together here. the agency's interest seems to be in getting you overseas and making money off of you rather then concern for your adjustment or difficulties once you've signed a contract. but there may be good ones out there.

Agencies -- much like some school positions -- don't all seem to be trustworthy. There are plenty of people in China who are eager to help you, and no shortage of people who will try to cheat you. So regardless of how you get here, try to become familiar with what a proper contract looks like and what sort of details it should include. If possible, try to get a copy of the contract you will have to sign before you come so you'll know what to expect.
most schools have a standard contract they give to foreign teachers, such as a clause that includes a $200-$1000 penalty fee if you leave before your contract's up (no giving two weeks' notice here). but all these contracts vary greatly in class hours, overtime, hourly rate, medical coverage, salary, and other conditions. being restricted to what you can negotiate might be challenging. some important things you'll want to find out is if housing is provided and what the standard costs of living in that region would be. You will find in China that your salary is more then enough to live comfortably on, but other foreign teachers independent of an organized program may be making considerably more. Of course, you probably aren't doing this for the money; but I think it is possible to find safe or fulfilling positions without the middle-man of an agency.

The biggest benefit of an agency is their predeparture services. Once you get here, it doesn't seem like they're much help. And as I understand it, if you go through an agency, you don't have much control over where you're placed. It can be hard here; your location will have a lot of influence on your day to day happiness. What kind of experience do you want? Do you want to be in a city? Do you want to be in the countryside? Do you want to be in the middle of no where where no one speaks English or do you want to be around other foreigners? My recommendation would be to ask around from other ESL teachers, hear their experiences, and see if you can get suggestions of specific schools from them.

I don't know what kind of place you hope to end up in, but possibly the best suggestion I could make considering my limited experience is not to go running off into the countryside to "rough it" unless you've thought about it carefully. China is an experience no matter where you are, but don't underestimate how difficult it can be. I've found that having other foreigners around has kept me sane. No matter where you are, there will be no shortage of Chinese people that want to interact with you, help you, get to know you, and make you feel welcome. Despite that, you need a break from it. No matter where you end up you will have tons of opportunities to interact with the local culture; I'd keep in mind that while at times annoying, having other foreigners around can help you adjust, vent about your classes, "show you the ropes", and back you up if you run into any problems.

There is no shortage of demand for English speakers here; so there are plenty of ways to get here. If you can find someone who can give you the name or place of a school, that's probably your best bet. $1300 is a lot of money and might be better spent traveling here, where it will go pretty far.
On an side note -- I graduated recently from college and I work for a university. The pay isn't as high as at other posts, but you get very generous vacations (4-7 weeks in the middle of the semester, then summer break) and often you get housing, which is one less hassel to worry about. the administration is more flexible if i want to cancel some classes to take some extended "weekend" trips -- working at a high school or middle school probably won't give you as much flexibility. for me it's also good because i'm around people my own age -- but most of my university students seem to be very driven and focused, if a little shy and reserved.
that's my two cents, hope it helps-- good luck.

denvin · Joined: 29 Sep 2004 Posts: 2

Thanks for your two cents. Your input was very helpful. I really don't know anyone who's taught english abroad, so I'm all over the internet trying to glean all I can. I've found a couple of sites that list various school's openings, but not many. I had also been told that some schools will hire, only to find out later that they were not legally allowed to do so, and then you're out of a job.

As for location, for a country of over 1.3 billion, I'm not really sure what to expect. I'm open to just about anything; although, I'd prefer some other english speaking teachers around. I can do city, I can do country, but I'd prefer not to get too far out into the sticks. That's for vacationing and travel. I tend to lean toward adult learners, university (conversation, business, culture, writing).

Anymore advice is appreciated.

Syndrome057 · Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Posts: 32 Location: China-TBD

Do not use a recruiter......... from a business standpoint, no one is looking out for your best interest.

The recruiter will shop you around for the highest possible cut for them...... not for you. The recruiter might have a choice between a shady school offering 5000 a month, and a more reputable school giving away 6000. It is possible that the 5000 school will pay the recruiter more to land you, thus you are out the 1000 a month.

Business here is handled as "relationships". You do not know who the recruiter has a "relationship" with. The best jobs are often times not advertised. These schools sure as hell don't have to pay a recruiter to land a foreign face when their reputation is good. Just look around and trust your gut instinct. Do your own negotiations and be firm. A recruiter will provide no additional value (except in RARE circumstances).

Besides........ that is one hefty fee they are charging you Shocked

Peace,
Safari

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

laodeng · Joined: 07 Feb 2004 Posts: 481

Ditto, ditto, ditto. I would add, too, that you can fly from the West Coast to China for under $500 if you get your ticket through a bucket shop. Look in the front of Lonely Planet.

peggiescott · Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 162

Hello Denvin,

I may be blasted for this post but I had a good experience with my recruiter. She works mostly with public colleges, which is the age I enjoy, and they have (I believe) shorter working hours and fairly standard vacations. I came to China in mid May of this year and so far all the terms of my contract, that I care about, have been fulfilled. Although I do NOT get paid for recommending people to her, she sent me a list of the schools where she has openings. They seem to be mostly mid sized schools in mid sized cities. The school paid her, not me. It is true that she put me on a plane in Beijing, kiss me on both cheeks and disappear. But her English is satisfactory and she understands the system.

Not all recruiters are bad!

Good luck to you.

Peggie

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

This is one area of the biz that I would stay away from...after reading the opinions of a "headhunter" on this board....check for example the topic "Culture Shock"...and you will discover that no matter how bad the school treats you headhunters tend to blame everything on "rumor mills" and cultural misunderstanding...in other word..once the fee is paid...you become someones "red headed step child".
Get a good CV..send it out and ask for copies of contracts...look them over and decide what is important to you...is it Western TV..some schools provide....or travel ...some schools help....but remember...no promise of a headhunter is good in China..and never pay for their services...this is a money making adventure...if you are smart you can make some bank and enjoy yourself...

millie · Joined: 29 Oct 2003 Posts: 413 Location: HK

MES · Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 24

I recently met 2 South Africans brought here by an agency in Shenzhen. Their one year contracts are almost up and this is what they told me:

They have F visas

Apartment supplied

They must travel a lot from school to school....a pain they said.

The agency finds them the work

They can work as much or as little as they like BUT they must pay the agency 25% of their monthly salary. If they stay a 2nd yr this drops to 15%. They hadn't heard of anyone backing up for seconds and they aren't going to either. They now resent having 1/4 of their salary deducted.

Both said if they knew a year ago what they know now, they wouldn't have signed up.

lagerlout2006 · Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 985

If I read this correctly and you are planning to give cash to an agent---dont. You can find a better job by yourself. At times an agent can find you something---but this doesn't sound any good.

amberrollins · Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 27 Location: Way Out in Korea

Just jumping in to totally agree with all the aformentioned. I know it seems confusing at first, but you do not need an agency. There are a gazillion teaching jobs in China, and you will have your pick of offers. I put my resume up on China TEFL and before I even applied to any schools, I started getting offers in my inbox. FAOs will help you, and it's really not all that difficult once you get started. And the flight price quoted is pure rip-off. I got a one-way for $616 off Travelocity, Dallas to Beijing.

ymmv · Joined: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 387

Ditto everyone else's comments about not paying a recruiter.

In addition, this particular recruiter appears to have placement problems - he signs up too many teachers and then scrambles to find places for them.

He recently posted on the TeflChina Jobs list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TEFLChinaJob/message/7290

This is the 3rd or 4th time I can recall seeing him post there soliciting positions for his "extra" teachers. Not a good sign.

burnsie · Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 489 Location: Beijing

Yes, agree, don't pay a recruiter. No need. You can get a job without them.

And in reference to recruiters you can get ripped off by recruiters and you can get ripped off by schools. These are generalisations from everybody. The main point is you don't need a recruiter to get a good teaching job in China.

Find a teaching job in China is easy, find the RIGHT ONE is hard!

IN DEFENCE OF RECRUITERS (WELL, 1 AT LEAST)

I worked for a recruiter for a couple of months and he is not a good friend of mine. Totally honest guy. He had only been in the game for less than a year and TOTALLY DISENCHANTED by the industry.

The teachers that were organised by him were sharfted by the so-called reputable schools that he hired for. These schools were even registered schools with the government. After he had placed them and settled the new teachers into the school he had a number of calls from them about their particular problems. After hearing this the school bluntly told him to keep out of their affairs and could not help the poor teachers in trouble. After one or two left my friend helped them to find other positions and paid for the costs that the teacher was out of pocket.

My friend is now looking at other businesses which are more rewarding and less fickle than the recruitment business.

Madmaxola · Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 238

China,

The land of endless opportunity for voluntary financial sodomy.