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2 over lee · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 am Post subject: 3rd debate

Kerry clearly had the details, especially in areas such as healthcare, Bush did not. Very scary the way Bush answered the question on faith and decision making!

I don�t know about the rest of you but I find CNN�s after-debate analysis totally unwatchable.

No sign of transmitter. Kerry�s strongest performance, a real play for the job, at one stage he said, �as president I AM� not I will, I wonder if this was a slip or not?

Kurochan · Joined: 01 Mar 2003 Posts: 944 Location: China

I thought Kerry was sort of lackluster this time. He looked tired at the beginning, and I would have liked him to have used more concrete examples -- like to mention a particular worker he met who lost his job, or something like that. I agree that he has the numbers, but I'm worried he was being too abstract for some listeners. I'd have liked him to balance numbers with a few human interest examples.

Bush included several sound byte-y phrases in his answers, and on the abortion and gay marriage questions suddenly became surprisingly fluent. I was wondering if those were memorized and repeated by rote. I know a lot of people were speculating that he wore a wire in the first debate, and I kept trying to spot one this time, but I couldn't.

2 over lee · Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:28 am Post subject:

Kurochan wrote:

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Here's what I hated about all the debates (by the way, I support Kerry):

Both candidates would use, say, 30 seconds of their 90 or 120 seconds to lambaste their opponent and/or respond to a previous topic (Kerry did that a lot). What I wanted to see and hear was an actual, REALISTIC answer to the questions. All this "I have a plan . . . " nonsense was boring and mind-numbing. If you have a plan, then tell us for chrissakes! We heard far too much rhetoric and repitition from both sides of the stage.

I would like to think that if Americans actually heard in the debates no insults or blasting of the opposition and the if the candidate would just simply ignore the blasts from the other side, that candidate would win. I would have loved to watch 90 minutes of from-the-heart discussions on what could possibly be done to mend the ills of our nation and other nations (Iraq) in which we are involved. No such luck.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

We saw something unusual about Bush's hair--behind left ear--that disappeared when spouses, etc. came up on stage after debate. Could have been a receiver. Or a cockroach....

As for the debate itself between Tweedledee and Tweedledumb, Kerry did not even ask for folks to vote for him--violating the primary rule of selling--and Bush retreated to his No Child Left Behind memorized intervention 5 times when he couldn't answer questions, but probably secured the presidency when he commented that his wife spoke English much better than he did, as all those syntax and grammar fracturers out there (whose number is legion, based on the number of them that turn up in Mexico expecting to teach English!) could identify with him.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

I am not sure why this forum considers that C-O-C-K-R-O-A-C-H should be beeped out!

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

we don't. The mods do.

poro · Joined: 04 Oct 2004 Posts: 274

Did anyone notice the way Bush's accent kept changing, and that every time he had to think, he forgot to talk like a Texan?

Someone should have warned him about this.

leeroy · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 777 Location: London UK

Who, on Earth, would vote for George Bush?

The only thing more dangerous than an idiot is a dangerous idiot.

Jesus! I'm positively right-wing compared to most (I read The Economist, after all). I've seen GWB enough, I've heard him speak and I've witnessed the results of his foreign policies. The man is a disaster. I'm simply confounded that he is even being considered for the next election.

But I will stop short of saying "Americans must be stupid", as I know all too well that The British Population could get a couple of 'A' levels in stupidity as well...

And this is all coming from me, a pro-globalisation, pro-war fascist. If I see fault in GWB then there are serious problems afoot...

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

while a good majority of bush supporters are rather uninformed, to put it charitably, (drive through any trailer park and bush/cheney signs abound) a lot will vote for bush not because of the person but for the republican party and conservative politics in general. a lot of us aren't that excited about kerry either but we'll vote for him.

even if i was a republican i wouldn't vote for bush, the guy is a disaster to be sure.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

It's not wise to underestimate the stupidity of US voters--especially when they have someone they can identify with.

2 over lee · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:39 am Post subject:

These two excellent quotes from �poro�and �moonraven�, respectively, just must be placed together:

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Moonraven, I love your last post. Very funny.

I was unable to watch the debate, but I downloaded the transcript from BBC. It seemed to me that both candidates were speaking to different parts of the the American public and threw in nuggets to lure those people sitting on the fence. Kerry comes across as deathly afraid of alienating anyone and Bush as dogmatic yet pandering.

I agree with Lynn that Kerry was very impressive with his stat collection, but he didn't find a way to appeal to the hearts of people. Bush was far more elusive than Kerry. When he didn't have an answer he talked of Pell Grants and literacy.

Someone earlier commented that too much time was spend responding to attacks. I disagree. Kerry went into his poll slump earlier this year precisely because he didn't respond effectively to the attacks from the Republicans and the Swift Boat folk. In this debate he let a few attacks go unchallenged while he weaved his way through the new questions. Bush never missed an opportunity to defend and attack, though he came across as childish in my opinion.

As an academic I think Kerry clearly won the debate. For mass appeal I have to give the win to Bush.

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:54 am Post subject:

If you haven't seen it already, here's a video comparison of Dubya's speaking style in 1994 with his moronic style of today:

http://www.adbuzz.com/bushbuzz/BrainTenYrs*.mov

In 1994, he sounded like that Yale/Harvard graduate that he really is.

Here's the comparative analysis, with some suggested explanations for the huge difference:

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004-2_archives/000369.html

2 over lee · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:52 am Post subject:

R Lubeck wrote: