Job Discussion Forums

Madmaxola · Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 238

We should start a Foreign Teachers union for all westerners preparing to go to China.
We could post membership on every tefl page, and somehow manage basic demands to the advantage of any foreign teacher in China

Atleast 150 RMB per hour
Apartment
Full roundtrip airfare
etc etc

As a co-op organization we could make sure any member knows his rights and rightful pay.
It's basically what we're constantly discussing here anyways.

Sinobear · Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269 Location: Purgatory

Admirable idea. Impossible (to create, to maintain, to enforce, to regulate), but admirable.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Actually, what one probably needs to do is create a specific webpage (not a discussion board) that spells out all the things a future FT "should" ask for before they sign that contract. Personally, I would list a range of salaries, such as 100rmb to 200rmb per hour . . . depending on where they will be located. Try and cover all the ins and outs, ups and downs and then UPDATE THIS PAGE WEEKLY . . . OR MONTHLY.

Put plenty of links to Dave's and other such sites so the FT can get fully informed. And then get out there and put your link to your webpage on as many places as you could. I think pre-information is the best weapon a newbie can have before coming over here. I know I was a newbie once, but I read so many posts here that start something like this:

"I'm getting ready to leave for China in a week and I have a few questions . . ." !!!!!!!

I started investigating a full 6 months before I was scheduled to leave. And I was still woefully unprepared. How can someone not know of visa regulations (and seemingly being only a little concerned about this lack of knowledge) or standard contract offerings before they have bought that plane ticket and said good-bye to kith and kin?

So, good luck on creating that webpage and let us all know how it's coming along.

Sinobear · Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 1269 Location: Purgatory

Unfortunately, the reality would be that there's always someone who will be willing to come for less, or who will ignore even the most prudent advice and do whatever they d**n will please.
To quote Merlin from the 1981 version of Excalibur, "The future is like the cakes. Until you've tasted them, you don't know what's in them. And then (when you've tasted them), it's too late."

struelle · Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai

timkelly · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 7 Location: Yangshuo

A one stop information page for prospective teachers is a great idea. However, the idea of forming a Union to look after the interests of foreign teachers is a little misguided. We're hardly an exploited minority given our comparitive salaries and conditions with our colleagues in China. Anyone here for the money is perhaps in the wrong country. Despite China's laws guiding the expertise of teachers, I like the fact that some Schools employ backpackers to cater for those students unable to afford our fat pay packets. Every time I pass a local village school, I feel just a little guilty my teaching expertise is devoted entirely to people from Shenzen and Beijing. Perhaps I'll care enough to do something about that one day.

Madmaxola · Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 238

Well, mostly the idea was just posted to spark conversation.

Volunteering is a good idea. Helping people is nice. By all means devote some of your time to volunteering, if you want. Heal the world. Make it a better place.
For you and for me and the entire human race...

I don't think feeling pity for students who are poor means we should think "oh we make more than a peasant, we should feel bad and accept what we get" -

1) We aren't peasants, and what we do is valuable. That's why there are a million ads for English teachers all over the web! The "you make more than the locals" line is a great one employers use to pick up suckers who don't know any better.

2) Besides, we aren't the ones who are charging the students so much! If the students were charged only enough to cover your salary... then the tuition would be much much cheaper for them.
You are not the one charging the tuition, your boss and school are. They make money because they have a native speaking foreigner teaching English.They set the prices, the times, and they make the money. And they make their money because of you.

Do you think they feel pity for the students, because they charge so much?

But back on track...
Mostly that was posted just to get what you think. Certainly, the closest thing possible would be a web site that explains
1) How much chinese locals pay
2) How much you should be paid if you aren't being scammed
3) Contacts with other foreigners living and working in China.
4) Q & A

Which is pretty much what you get here anyways.. so who knows?
whatever

burnsie · Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 489 Location: Beijing

Haha hehe - the funniest joke I have heard in a long time! - FT union! Haha hehe

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I think Dave's is a great place to visit for sharing thoughts, opinions, funny stories, and (sadly) insults. But the idea to have a website that just has info you might need before coming to China is probably better for the uninitiated. But I'm too lazy to do it myself, mind you.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I have some doubts as to whether the OP was serious in proposing the setting-up of a foreign teachers' union...

After all, in socialist states the national govrnment is both employer and union!
We as outsiders stand no chance of being granted the right to set up a quasi-parallel organisation that could challenge the state.
We would be viewed with some bordering on paranoia and the suspicion that we are a covert rganisation similar to the Falun Gong outfit.

ShapeSphere · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 386

An idea of a FT Union is well intentioned but not workable in the teaching slave pits of China.

The best alternative we have is Dave's ESL Cafe. Through this medium we can keep people updated and informed on salaries, conditions, contracts, etc.

It is well known that most teachers are massively under pricing themselves, even though they are in great demand. I am not a militant when it comes to work matters, but I've been in China a year and am extremely weary of hearing from teachers being continually ripped off - whether on this website or through friends/acquaintances in my city.

I don't want to see people getting fleeced by a Chinese boss who cares for nothing except his own profit. We need to give people all the facts and the confidence to negotiate a good deal for themselves. So, let's just keep up the good work and the sharing of information.