Job Discussion Forums

[anthyp]

This thread has been an interesting read thus far.

Regarding my own classes, it has taken us quite a few weeks to familiarize ourselves with each other (I mean my students and I). Those first few weeks were difficult, as I am responsible for teaching them the same courses as their Chinese English teachers -- a "Practical English" course centered on preparation for their reading, writing, and listening tests at the end of the term.

Since these exams focus mainly on reading, that's what we do most -- 8 hours over two weeks on two texts, then another 4 hours every third week for listening and writing. We read the texts around three times; the first time I read it and have them listen, then I ask for volunteers to read it aloud, and we go through it paragraph by paragraph, even sentence by sentence. I write everything on the board, and they've learned to take notes.

Of course there are still some problems, but things are running more smoothly than they should be. I was fortunate to be assigned only two classes of more than 20 students, so that helps. I don't enforce attendance in my larger classes, but record who is doing the homework (which will factor into their final grades).

The less, the merrier, anyway. After giving out your grades, you can't worry too much about what happens. I won't really care if mine are adjusted (or thrown out the window altogether), since I am not familiar the Chinese grading system, and can't expect too much here.

I also have two Business English groups I see two hours a week. They are a lot of fun, as their English level is high, and they want to be there. We do a lot of things -- idioms, pronunciation drills, and the like. Plus they enjoy coming over to cook for me!

I feel a lot better about my classes this term; last year I had 19 Oral English classes that were kind of aimless. Even I don't get the point of teaching (let alone attending) classes for which you won't be taking any exams.

[kev7161]

Ace: If I could, I'd refuse books that didn't have any Chinese translations...I admit, I've been working in government colleges for a couple of years now...

What's the point when they just don't understand?


My texts have NO Chinese in them as well and I actually prefer that. It's a bit more effort for me to make some students understand a certain word or turn of phrase, but I love to see the students out there realizing what a "camel" is (or something) and then they jot it down in Chinese. When I give them a reading assignment, I advise them to read the passage once and simply underline the words they don't understand. Then, look up those words and write the Chinese meanings next to the English word. Then read again. This seems to work for most. (besides, many of my students' reading comprehension seems much better than their oral English) I don't mind if they whip out their translators, but they can't use for tests. My biggest challenge is not whether they understand their textbooks (most do), but their pronunciation. English is so funky with so many weird things in it that it is a struggle for me to even get them to understand why "clothes" and "close" are pronounced the same way!

[Chris_Crossley]

[kev7161]

Are you sure you are not thinking "cloths" (as in "washcloths")?

My clothes are dirty, I must wash them.

Please close the door.

Am I missing something here? Maybe I've been teaching it wrong all these years, but I was pretty sure that "clothes" and "close" were homophones. It may be a matter of dialect, however.

[Chris_Crossley]

[Chris_Crossley]

Also, before I forget, the "th" in "cloths" is the soft "th" sound, as in the "th" at the end of all ordinal numbers between, say, fourth and twentieth. PLUS, the "s" in "cloths" is the "s" phoneme and that in "clothes" is the "z" phoneme.

Hence, it is important to distinguish TWO separate ways of pronouncing "th" (hard and soft), as well as TWO ways of pronouncing "o" and TWO separate ways of pronouncing "s", in the words, "cloths" and "clothes". Only the "cl" sound is the same in both words.

It may confuse your students considerably, but you've got a ready alibi - you didn't invent the pronunciations and that's that!

[kev7161]

From: http://members.cox.net/bphillips28/thingsenglish/homophones/c.html

close, clothes, cloze \'klOz\ 3
clothes, close, cloze \'klOz\ 3
cloze, close, clothes \'klOz\ 3

And here's a site that has a HUGE listing of homophones (If you want to cover some of these in a lesson):

http://www.fictionfactor.com/articles/hhhh.html

I don't know Chris. I just did a google search putting in "homophones", "clothes", and "close" and came up with a multitude of sites. I certainly can't go through all of them, but most seem to point out that clothes/close are certainly homophones. Many of my Chinese students want to pronounce that "th" in the word clothes. Sort of like kloz-es. I admonish them that the "th" is silent.

I'm not sure if you are from England or the US, but I do think there will almost always be some sort of dialect differences (even within the US!). But I'm pretty firm on this one, I think.

(sorry, didn't mean to go all off-topic and all . . . even in my own thread!)

Here's one more that has quite a few homophones for you to use and enjoy:

http://donnayoung.org/language/sp/simsound.htm

[Roger]

[quote="kev7161"]Ace: If I could, I'd refuse books that didn't have any Chinese translations...I admit, I've been working in government colleges for a couple of years now...

What's the point when they just don't understand?


Have you studied any second tongue, man?
Your question begs no answer! Bilingual books defeat the purpose of teaching the target language; what they might succeed in doing is to give the learner an illusion of understanding; however, just because you hear the CHinese equivalent of "hippopotamus" you do not auto "understand". You have to picture the animal, and if you have never seen one no translation will be useful.
No, English textbooks with Chinese translations are RUBBISH!
They have an addictive influence - the learner will never wean himself off his first language. But the purpose of teaching a second language is to make the learner independent of his mother tongue as a help.
Acquiring a second language basically is a practical skill in which problem-solving takes precedence. You have to learn to guess, to think of possible meanings, rather than to be served up one and one meaning only for every foreign expression!
Haven't you noticed how hard up our learners are when having to express themselves spontaneously?
The more you expose them to ready-made "solutions" to their English comprheension problems the less they learn to overcome their difficulties.

I deplore that even university students use textbooks with integrated translations! Their own "teachers" never address these students in English - preferring to say everything in their own lingo. That's why they are all mediocre achievers!

[kev7161]

Okay, so we are still veering off topic, but so what? That's what normal conversations do anyway.

I ask my students to bring a notebook to class so they can take notes. Few do this although they have a stack of notebooks in their classroom. I remember taking my little Chinese class back in the states before I came here. I'd listen to the teacher speaking in Chinese and I'd jot down the words I understood. I tried to spell them correctly in Pinyin and then I'd write them in English. If I got every third or fourth word, then I might have been able to get a glimmer of what he was saying. I did this in my college Spanish classes as well. Sadly, I didn't stay with the Chinese courses (even when I arrived here) as I simply lost interest (with all those tones - sheesh!). The point is, students may not want to learn English, and what can I do? But those who do say, "Kevin, how can I make my English better?" Well, this is one idea.

[deezy]

I have small classes, the children's classes are less than 20, and the adults are less than 10. I admire any teacher who can teach 50 + in a class. That seems like a huge logistical nightmare. So hats off to you guys..

With those students who are not beginners, we have a class contract which they decide on. Without fail, they all decide that from the classroom door it's 'English only zone'. And they police it themselves. If a student speaks Chinese, I don't need to say anything, the other students tell him. With the business English students they have imposed a penalty which I rather like...the perpetrator of the 'crime' has to pay for a round of drinks!

Doubt if that sort of 'contract' could be agreed with 50+!!!

None of our resource books have any Chinese in them. It didn't enter my head that there was another way to teach a language. When I was learning Chinese back in Australia, after the first lesson all classes were Chinese only, and the workbooks were also in Chinese (pinyin to start). It was d*mned hard work, after three intensive hours I had a blinding headache, but those classes have served me well now I'm actually in China, and help me to understand what the students have to cope with.

[Old Dog]

Kev is right. Close and clothes are homophones. I've heard them often. First, among the lower echelons of western primary school groups - and I've forgiven them on the grounds that they must be imitating their parents' lingo. Among adults, the pronunciation has been restricted to those without benefit of careful education and to those with certain speech impediments.
Among other groups, however, I've become accustomed to hearing them dealt with in the manner that Chris-Crossley describes.
There's a lot of crap on the internet and I suspect that, if a site lists these words as homophones, its authority on these matters is not to be taken too seriously. A lot of sites are done by Dwayne or Dorelle of the Back Block Primary School, people with rather more time on their hands than is good for education, I fear.
I've just checked my English-Chinese Dictionary, the product of a Shanghai publishing house and one frequently used among students here. There's no equivocation about the difference between clothes and close there.
My God! I'd wash my mouth with salt were I to find myself guilty of uttering such an abomination - close for clothes.
For shame, Kev. Dwayne and Dorelle have led you astray.

[kev7161]

Ahh, I think I'm getting it now. You are thinking close as in:

1. Don't stand so close to me, you smell horrible!

As opposed to:

2. Please close the door, a draft is coming through.

Certainly, the example in #1 is a different pronunciation of the word. But the example in #2 IS a homophone of clothes. I could have 100 people disagree with me here at Dave's, but I stand firm in my knowledge. Sadly, I don't have a handy-dandy textbook with me from which to quote, but out of the dozens, dare I say HUNDREDS, of websites which I glanced, they were ALL agreeing with me. Okay, okay . . . there's a lot of hooey on the 'net, but c'mon now!

[Larry Parnell]

Not sure if you'll make 100 but I'll be number 3.

[monju]

How I envy some of you!
I teach 13 grade one and 12 grade 2 classes a week, each class 45 mins.
The students vary from OK to apalling. At least half of the students can't answer a simple question and most of the students are simply not interested in English.
The school's administration tells me to make the classes interesting and the teachers want me to do only the "speaking" activities in the textbook.
Well the textbook is um ...... and the speaking activities, well......
I've been told that I'm not to cover anything that the teachers might have already done - even if that happens to be helping with common errors.
My Chinese friends tell me that the teachers are jealous and feel threatened by me.
I've been in China for most of the last 4 years and this is one of the two worst experiences I've had (bothhere in Shanxi).
I would be grateful for any suggestions on either the teaching side or the interpersonal relationship side of my dilemna.
Had an offer to go to Yunnan today, perhaps that's the answer!

[deezy]

G'day
Just my two penn'th....

When I say clothesmy tongue moves forward between my teeth for a fraction of a second, making a noiseless 'th' sound, and I teach it by demonstrating and getting the students to do likewise.