Job Discussion Forums

jg · Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: Trying to make a career of it...

I am back in Chicago now, teaching ESL, wondering if its worth it to try and make a go of it here. Lately, I am leaning towards "no!". This is my third ESL job in the states, and the best paying one yet ($30 USD per hour). If I teach the maximum hours available to me, that puts me at about the salary I made teaching in a suburban public school district - $36,000 per year.

Take out rent/mortgage payments, insurance, car payments, and GULP! Welcome to the lower middle-class. Not exactly a horrible fate, but quality of life counts for something... and most language schools in the states pay less, I consider myself lucky now. Three years ago, I worked in DC for $14 an hour, and I taught ESL as a "visiting instructor" through a university program for $20 an hour two years ago. I have yet to see the salaried ESL job here in the US. The school in D.C. offered split shifts and we were the biggest chain in the area. Our biggest competitor, with two schools, paid even less! From chatting with friends and coworkers in Miami, LA, and the like, I see that this sort of thing is standard.

There isn't much of a market here for ESL anyway... Chicago has a handful of schools, despite a large immigrant population. Other cosmopolitan cities are better per the amount of schools, but its still frightening. Plus, universities are churning out the graduates these days, so schools can be choosy about who they underpay.

Thats the weird ESL dynamic. You have to leave your country to make some money (Taiwan, Korea, Japan, UAE, etc) or to make a modest sum but still enjoy a good, challenging and exotic quality of life. Also, you don't need anything more than a Bachelor's degree and/or a certificate from Harry's TEFL Hut. Here, there are certifications, pressure to get (expensive) master's degrees, at least if you want to get the rare gravy job at a university or jr. college.

And lets face it, the sort of people who enjoy ESL abroad might find it dull at home... now many of my students are Polish, and I think to myself, "gee, why not be in Warsaw, experiencing another culture, rather than this funky-butt building in downtown Chicago? Oh, I can't eat out every meal here like I did in Shanghai, or take two months salary and travel hither and yon for seven weeks..." fluency in the language/culture go a long way of course, and I knew going in that teachers don't get paid like rock stars, but still, the ESL atmosphere here is lame. Confused

I don't think ESL has much of a future here in the states. I wish I knew more about the situations in OZ and the UK. The people who can afford to come here and study are wealthy, but so much of the industry is McEnglish... even less inspired than most places overseas.

What counts for more, modest comfort in your own country or the thrills/headaches of teaching abroad, but all the great benefits? I am weighing it now, and I gotta tell you, I hear my passport calling me...

Spiderman Too · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:28 am Post subject:

I have been teaching EFL for close to 8 years and I intend to continue until I am too old to secure employment (at my current university there is a 76 y.o. foreign teacher!). From time-to-time, I check the internet employment ads for ESL teachers in my home country but I have no real intentions of going back.

Despite all the trials and tribulations of living in a foreign country (for me, 3 Asian countries), my EFL 'career' is, in fact, my chosen lifestyle. Teaching English and living overseas are intrinsically linked for me. Without one I wouldn't do the other.

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

that's what keeps me constantly reconsidering a career in ESL in china, the lack of benefits. maybe i'm spoiled, but china is the last place i want to be if i get seriously ill or in an accident. can you imagine becoming handicapped in china? that would be a nightmare. if i can find a solution to that problem i'd gladly live la vida loca in china. maybe i should just plan on dying early.

Volodiya · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:17 am Post subject: Trying to make a career of it

You don't want to be seriously ill, or in an accident, or handicapped anywhere in the world, but...,

Have you considered Thailand? Both medical care and medical insurance are significantly cheaper than in many parts of the world, and everyone I've met has had good experiences with the med care there.

It's inexpensive to live there in retirement, and the Thai government will give you a retirement visa upon your depositing the equivalent of 800,000 Baht (just under $20,000 USD) in a local bank.

jg · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject:

Benefits? Not really... most ESL is hourly so that you can't (without working like a dog) qualify for full-time, which would force them to give you benefits. Thats why jobs at the Universites are so coveted I guess, because they offer solid benefits. Thats not particular to the ESL industry though, in all fairness. Many companies are moving towards hiring part-timers/temps so they don't have to pony up benefits, or they can offer meager health/dental plans.

Thailand? Yeah, that sounds good. I guess thats the best way, if you aren't going to make much anywhere, you may as well reduce your expenses as much as possible. I hope retirees in the US and Canada never catch on and start moving en masse abroad, driving up the costs in places like Thailand the way they have in parts of Mexico... stick to the Mazatlan Sunshine Homes, gramps!

Volodiya · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:22 am Post subject: Trying to make a career of it

There are several reasons I can think of to recommend Thailand for one's declining years besides the local availability of good medical care.
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Rents, relative to quality, can be amazingly low. A friend recently rented a two story, three bedroom, two bath, detached house in a medium size city for the equivalent of $110 USD per month.

Most cities in Thailand are situated on flat ground, a thing that can become an issue in old age (compare Istanbul, where most of the city is built on the side of hills).

The food is amazingly good and inexpensive: there is good variety, and even seafood can be relatively inexpensive if you live in one of those cities near the source.

Local transport tends to be readily available and not very expensive.

Transportation within the country is very good and recently, several new discount airlines have begun to operate, offering O/W fares for as little as $20 USD.

The weather is kind to you- if you stay out of the midafternoon sun.

Thai people are not very aggressive- something one may come to appreciate more in old age.

Add to this international television via cable TV, good books by mail, access to beaches, a little teaching to keep up interest- and a few friends to enjoy it with- and you've got a pretty good combination.

sojourner · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:43 am Post subject:

Hi Joe,

Many thanks for the info re retiring in Thailand. I have been there many times - I certainly prefer it to China.

You mentioned something about the need to pay an 80 K Baht deposit in order to be eligible for a 'retirement visa'. Also, do the Thai authorities require evidence on how you'll support yourself ?

I'd be most grateful if you would provide me with details of some web sites re govt regulations relating to the topics of retirement visas, special deposits or bonds, etc "? Also, some sites relating to the experiences of retirees ? PM me, if necessary.

Regards,

Peter

Volodiya · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: Trying to make a career of it

Thanks for the kind words, Peter.

The requirements for a retirement visa can be found through the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs website, but I'd recommend looking at the website of the Thai Embassy in the country of your citizenship. (Sorry to say, at the moment I don't remember if you can apply for this visa in the country of your residence, if it differs from that of your citizenship.) The whole thing looks pretty straightforward to me, and in the U.S. they say the visa can be issued in a day.

Other requirements that I recall are that you be at least 50 years old, that you have a medical cert showing you're free of certain diseases, a police cert showing an absence of serious criminal record, a bank statement showing that you have the requisite sums available to you and, of course, the application and fee. The visa is issued and you travel to Thailand, after which you make the wire transfer and go to immigration to show your compliance with the terms of the visa.

As to the specific question about whether you must show some means of support as well as the deposit of cash, I don't recall any such requirement (however, proof of substantial retirement income is offered as an alternative to a cash deposit); but clearly you cannot maintain the deposit upon which the renewal of the visa will be based if you draw it down during the year, so this presupposes some external means of support other than working, which is not allowed under the terms of this visa.

That's about all I can recall without having another look, which you'll need to do anyway. Hope this helps as a place to begin your investigation.

sojourner · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:53 am Post subject:

Thanks, Joe, for your prompt response.

Regards,

Peter

Seth · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 575 Location: in exile

Volodiya · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:59 am Post subject: Trying to make a career of it

Yeah, that's a real problem all right. That's another reason Thailand is appealing. Good quality health care (Bumrungrad Hospital) seems to cost only about 25% of U.S. prices (my experience).

I elected to be self-insured for all but catastrophic expenses of illness, so I have a private health insurance policy which covers illnesses or injuries serious enough to require a hospital stay, no matter how brief, with a $1600 U.S. deductible. After that, it pays 100% of covered expenses.

It's good coverage relative to cost, and it's guaranteed renewable for life. To get further details, see /www.ihi.com/

Zero · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 1402

If a person did want to retire to China, what visa might he use? My wife is Chinese and we are 28 ... I have thought about saving till
I was 45 or 50 and then retiring over there.

ContemporaryDog · Joined: 21 May 2003 Posts: 1477 Location: Wuhan, China

Volodiya · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:36 am Post subject: Trying to make a career of it

I don't think retirement is impossible for a TEFLer (or at least get to a point where part time work is enough), but I think it requires picking a place that you like, with a low cost of living; buying an apartment or house there and having it fully paid for; having some retirement income from a pension fund and/or personal savings; and, having a good, permanent health insurance policy that you acquire before you get too old or too sick to qualify.

Salary small? This means having the discipline to reduce expenses and save for a significant period of time and, if possible, supplementing that income with privates- one on one, and small groups. Figure out what you feel you'll need, then apply the math to your situation. The rest is just having some good luck, and sticking to your goals for as long as it takes.
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I haven't shopped, but people have told me you can buy a detached house in medium sized cities in Thailand for $20,000 U.S. (Some of you will know they have limitations on foreign ownership, which is dealt with by writing long [30 year] leases, which are renewable.) As I understand it, apartments can be purchased in China in just about any price range, from a few thousand U.S. up.